I've got a big woody...

[beverlyt]

Rik,
Very, very nice! What an unusual trailer and I love the kids bunk. You've incorporated some really nice items in your trailer.
I wanted to take a moment to talk about the pvc or the like, roofing material.
Though I wouldn't change mine and I'm very happy with it, it's not for everyone. You mention how up-close, every small detail of covered nails, etc show up.
Well, this happened with ours under the pvc material. To look perfect, you would have to probably have a VERY smooth surface. Ours really shows any inperfections underneath and there are more than a few!
Certain areas are smooth as butter...doors, hatch.
Aluminum or paint would probably be more forgiving.
I LOVE mine though. Looks weren't as important to me as the insulating qualities, low maintenance and cost. We were looking more at functionality than anything else...and will keep it in the family since we built it.
Good luck on whatever you choose. I'm looking forward to seeing how Chip's trailer turns out too!
Bev

[R Keller]

Beverly: Thanks for the compliments. The surface is very smooth and "fair", as they say. I've filled all holes with epoxy filler and sanded smooth. It's just visually not perfect.

Aren't there areas on yours where there are bubbles under the surface too? For any type of laminated surface, that is a potential problem. And then the areas tend to delaminate further as the air bubbles expand and contract with changes in temperature. I'm trying to avoid having to laminate anything (filon, PVC, etc.) and would prefer to "float" a metal skin or to paint.

When you mention the "insulating qualities" are you referring to the refectivity of the white surface? While a white surface will have reduced heat build-up in direct sun, I can't imagine the thin PVC would have any other insulating properties.

By the way, what thickness did your PVC material come in? Do you know the weight?

And Chip, do you know how much the TPO weighs? Are you doing both the sides and top in TPO?

Thanks all!

Rik

[beverlyt]

Rik,
Hmmmm.. I'll try to answer some of your questions....
Yes, we do have some "bubbles" underneath the pvc. Although we had a "roofer" on hand who has used the material for years, one must remember we were doing a trailer, and not a roof...so it was sort of an experiment!
Also, we live in Michigan...where it takes FOREVER to get warm from the winter. We applied the pvc while it was still very cold, with very little heat in the garage. We think that had a lot to do with the bubble problem. The glue was cold and so was the pvc.
Will the "bubbles" get bigger? I don't think so. The glue is very strong stuff. And even if it did... I guess I don't care much since it can't fall off the trailer with the aluminum trim. (As you can tell, cosmetic quality is not what I was shooting for.
Yes, the white is good in the sun and I have read that pvc has insulating qualities too, though I've only read such things. We figured that a tough roofing material, made to sit outside in the weather elements would make a good trailer cover. I wash it with dish soap and other than that, it's care-free. Paint would be much the same I would imagine.
I don't know the weight or thickness. I would call it about the thickness of a very soft piece of linoleum.
If you don't want to "take your chances" I think you'd prefer paint or aluminum. The pvc might have worked perfect in the correct elements and put down on a smoother surface than ours was. Ours had a few "trouble" spots.
Anyway, good luck and look forward to seeing it, whatever "skin" your trailer turns out in.
Bev

[beverlyt]

Rik,
One more thing.. Bob says we could always go right over the top of the pvc in aluminum (float) if we wanted to ever change it. (or if the pvc ever wore out)
So we still have that option!
Bev

[R Keller]

Bev,

Thanks for the info. I like the dish soap cleanup. Sounds ideal to me.

Rik

[Chip]

Rik,,the TPO I am using is 50 mil thick,and weighs approx .3 lbs/sqft. it comes in white, tan and light gray,,, I am using white also and to address bubbles,, they tend to disappear rather than get larger,,when you install it it is better if its 50 degrees or warmer,,,the glue is very strong,,lets just say if ya didnt put it where ya wanted it the first try well ya gonna have to live with it,,it aint coming off without a lot of work,,I work in the roofing industry so its a natural material for me,,plus the price was right,,(contractor gave me a large piece),,the PVC is a bit more flexible than TPO but when installed should not be able to tell a difference,,the drawback is that any inperfections in your under side will telegraph thru and be seen ,,not real bad but it will show a bit,,tha good side is it does not dent and is easy to clean up. good luck with your decesion,,if I can answer any other questions give me a shout,,

chip

[R Keller]

Chip,

Thanks for the info.

Does the telegraphing "problem" apply to TPO too? What kind of glue do you use? What would be approx. retail prices be for someone buying TPO in small quantities?

Thanks for the weight specs. In comparision, 5052 Flurocarbon Painted (PVDF) aluminum is listed as 0.564 pounds/square foot for .040" (40 mils)thickness at SAF's website. A 4x8 sheet weighs 18.05 lbs. The same size TPO sheet at 50 mils thickness would weigh about half that at 9.6 lbs.

Rik

[beverlyt]

Chip,
I'm just wondering.... could one float the TPO or PVC? I'm just thinking that might be a possibility too what with all the aluminum trim that bolts it all down. (At least that's what we did at the seams)
I'm just thinking if you can do it with aluminum, why not roofing material?
hmmmmmm :
Bev

[Chip]

Rik,,,the telegraph problem is still there but with TPO being more ridged it will bridge small gaps where PVC is more flexible and will form to its undersurface more easily,,to get a good bond the surface needs to be rolled with a rubber or neoprene roller to get 100% contact with the bonding adhesive,
as far as price get to be friends with a commercial roofer or your local roofing wholesaler,,,cost should be no more than .45 to .55 cents a sqft,,the bad side is you may have to buy a piece larger than you really need,,some suppliers do cut to length which helps since a roll is over 600 sqft,,a little leg work and you can find a small piece of either if thats the way you want to go
The bonding adhesive comes in gallons or 5gal pails,,its close to 25 to 30.00 a gal but any good quality of bonding adhesive can workyou have to coat bath mating surfaces so a gallon will only go about 75 sq feet,,in this case less is better though,,nice even thin coats,,,
as far as floating the material on the sides it will not work well,,even though it is reinforced it will stretch a bit and your nice smooth sides will have a middle age buldge before long,,lol,,on top it could work but I am not gonna experiment,,,can you emagine looking in the mirrow and seeing bare wood,,,at 50, 60 70 mph if it aint glued down it will flap,,and the flapping will eventually cause a failure somewhere,,one other advantage is if you get a rip or hole in either it can be easly fixed in a few seconds with a patch,,may not look good but if its waterproof it might save a vacation


Folks I hope this has answered a few of ya questions,,
Chip

[R Keller]

Chip,

Thanks for "TPO 101." One more question. My roof is flat and strong, so I plan to hang out on it, walk on it, sit in chairs on it, etc. on occasion. How durable is TPO for something like that? Would I have to worry about puncturing it or damaging it in some other way?

I also found this article on-line that may interest some of you:

"Cleaning And Protecting RV Rubber Roofs"
http://www.geocities.com/blueskywhiteclouds/rubberroofs.html
discusses EPDM and TPO roofs. Excerpt:

"TPO - Thermal Poly Olefin - was introduced to the RV and Marine Industries in 1994. It is resistant to algae, mold, fungus, and other biological agents. The chemistry of TPO allows for no chalk residue or degradation of the membrane through its useful life. The TPO membranes are non-skid when wet and therefore are used frequently as floor covering in the pontoon boat industry as well. The chemical additives used in TPO for protection from UV light are not self-sacrificing. Instead, they operate in a regenerative fashion as they interfere with the degradation reactions that occur from UV light exposure. Some features of TPO are the advanced polymer technology, weight reduction and easy installation due to its soft and pliable nature. TPO carriers a 12 year manufacturers' warranty."

Rik

[Chip]

Rik,,I have been on rubber when its wet and its slick as greese,,TPO,,not as bad for sure,,still wouldnt want to do the patio thing on it,,well 50 mil anyway,,if I were going to climb on it I would go to the 80 mil,,,bout bullet proof,,,,well bout,,,its strong but it will puncture if you push a chair bottom on it that has lost its rubber thingy,,,if ya careful you could get on it,,,on a roof of a commercial building it takes a lot of abuse,,on top of a tear who knows,,,go by a roofing supply wholesaler and ask for a sample,,,call first,,some wont even know what you are talking about,,,sample is free for the asking,,or e-mail ya address and Ill drop one in the mail

chip