"The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

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"The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby JamesDixonLR » Sun May 13, 2018 9:57 am

Quick question, I hope. The camper I'm starting will use Glidden Gripper and Canvas as the skin, a Poor Man's Fiberglass. I've read all kinds of ideas on this forum and was just at Home Depot to buy polyurethane and mineral spirits to make "the mix" with to seal the bottom before applying Gripper when I wondered if that would be a mistake. I've had it in my mind I would seal it with the polyurethane mix then use gripper to secure the skin.
It's one thing to waste money, it's another to waste money and make create something that does not work well. I got to wondering if the gripper would stick to the sealed plywood as well as it would the unsealed plywood? If I seal the plywood it is of course not porous anymore so the gripper might just want to come right off.
I'm starting to think that maybe I've seen "the mix" discussed in conjunction with visible plywood and not in situations like mine where all of the exterior plywood will be covered by paint (gripper) or gripper and canvas. Maybe I should use the mix only on the interior plywood that won't be covered.
P.S., I've read several ideas of skinning the bottom but one idea is simply to paint it (paint it well of course) because it really doesn't need more.
thank
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby KennethW » Sun May 13, 2018 10:19 am

Gripper is a primer on it's own. Gripper may not may no grip to the poly. Don't poly!!
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby John61CT » Sun May 13, 2018 10:25 am

My understanding was that no coating is required under Gripper.

I imagine doing so if you felt it needed would not cause a problem, unless there is an incompatibility, but in this case - water-based acrylic - I think sticks to most anything, just might need to sand etc prep.

As far as using the canvas over ply, especiall underneath is also structurally unnecessary.

Getting good adhesion at corners and other transitions is important, but other than for appearance's sake, the canvas is there to add strength to the foam.
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby JamesDixonLR » Sun May 13, 2018 10:50 am

Thanks, guys. I'm glad I had that random thought while I was in the store and then asked before it was too late. This is the danger of too much study.
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby GPW » Mon May 14, 2018 5:51 am

Gripper sticks to anything except grease ( see the label instructions ) … The Mix is thin , sinks into the wood , fills the tubes … Gripper does not sink in and seal like the mix, primer … Two different things , both important … ;)
And if you use Gripper to adhere the canvas , be sure BOTH surfaces are completely covered before sticking together … Gripper does not penetrate the canvas fibers completely unless thinned first . We tried rolling on the gripper then pressing the dry canvas into it , but had bubbles on ours that had almost no Gripper on the underside of the canvas when we went to fix it … :duh: Titebond 2 was a lot easier /better for our simple needs .
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby John61CT » Mon May 14, 2018 8:16 am

So you're saying first use the Mix to seal all the wood first, then Gripper (or TB2) over that for the canvas adhesion and outer waterproofing?

If you prefer TB2 for sticking the canvas to foam, and were going to use a different paint as the outermost layer, should I use Gripper in between or just go direct?
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby GPW » Mon May 14, 2018 5:56 pm

J’61 we’d glue the canvas down with T2 .. if to Foam , then Prime it with the gripper , then paint … If it was a heavy weight canvas , we’d “size” it after gluing it down with a very thin coat of T2 and water … 25% T2 …75% water … they don’t recommend this as a Glue but it works Great for waterproofing the individual canvas fibers ... Artists have been doing this with rabbit skin glue on canvas for hundreds of years now, their stuff made to last a Long long time … The object is to make the canvas skin Tough and waterproof … and it works … :thumbsup:

If you’re gluing to wood , you can use the Mix on the wood to waterproof it , then the Gripper to glue and seal the canvas to the wood over the well dried mix … then paint …
Last edited by GPW on Mon May 14, 2018 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby John61CT » Mon May 14, 2018 6:04 pm

Thanks, but also

The Mix first used to seal the wood bits

?
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby JamesDixonLR » Mon May 14, 2018 7:32 pm

I'll keep this in mind going forward. I've got three coats of Gripper on the underside now and might put another as I have paint left. On the sides and top I'll use the mix first and then cover that with Gripper (diluted?) to apply the canvas. So some people use diluted Titebond II to adhere the canvas and others Gripper. TBII is actually 2/3 the price per gallon of Gripper to begin with so especially if diluted 50% it should be more economical to apply with that and then cover the canvas with the Gripper.
I assume you would apply the diluted TBII like paint with a roller, doing both the camper surface and the canvas.
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby John61CT » Mon May 14, 2018 10:37 pm

Has anyone tried actually immersing / soaking the duck / canvas in T2 before draping it on?

I realize that the process would be crazy messy, need PPE etc.

But you'd have plenty of time for getting it flat fit, rolling out the excess, no air gap "bubbles". . .
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby GPW » Tue May 15, 2018 5:25 am

Guys , the difference is , gluing canvas on wood can really make a STRONG Bond , really keeping plywood from splitting and then taking on water , which leads to Rot and delamination ( like on old school canoes ) … Gluing Canvas to Foam , not so much as the Foam surface will Always fail before the glue … A Foamie relies on a tight sock-like application of the canvas , holding all together … Water does not affect it … ( a hard tent)

Altghough we’ve not tried immersing canvas in glue , we’ve done a lot of paper mache in the past and that works . Yes, it can be messy and use a LOT of Glue …

And remember canvas shrinks after you apply it and as it drys … you have to allow some extra length for that …

The Mix , was developed by Chuck Cunningham Aircraft …to waterproof Cardboard model planes … We’ve used it for Waterproofing on wood . paper , chipboard , etc. for years now with great success… http://feltondesignanddata.com page 3 , construction hints …

Odd thing , using water as the solvent , T2 and the gripper probably have very similar binders , the Gripper being a primer is highly pigmented … so what you’re really paying extra for is the white stuff ( or gray)
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby John61CT » Tue May 15, 2018 6:30 am

So again just for 5-y.o. clarity:

____
All wood bits sealed with the Mix.

T2 (or Gripper) thickly applied both sides for the canvas-to-everything wrap adhesion, holds everything together, tensile strength etc.

Finally (more) Gripper for outermost layer waterproofing.

____
Please confirm explicitly, or if wrong, clarify how.

TIA
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby GPW » Tue May 15, 2018 4:04 pm

Yes , and the paint … :thumbsup:
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby John61CT » Tue May 15, 2018 8:48 pm

Yes I suppose to make it pretty 8-)

But as long as there are enough coats of Gripper, is it OK **from a functional POV** to just leave it?

Or is another paint needed for UV weather resistance or something?
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Re: "The Mix" and Glidden Gripper?

Postby GPW » Wed May 16, 2018 4:23 am

That’s a good question … ?  Although we left the roof top of the FoamStream in Primer for months with no apparent harm other than dirt and a little mold , I’d think it's better to paint it … JMHO
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