Heating Trailer from Tow Vehicle?

[Hamilton Felix]

Hi, I'm new here, just in the learning phase.

My wife and I have been figuring out what we want, which is mostly, lightweight, simple, and streamlined enough to tow behind a Corolla.

I had a wild idea the other day: I have a Suburban with rear heating. Has anyone tried to heat a teardrop while on the road, using the same sort of setup as a rear heater in a Suburban, plus the addition of some quick-connect hydraulic style couplers near the hitch?

I was watching a video of a young lady living in her teardrop, a Photographer who travels a lot. She was complaining about it freezing up in really cold weather. She has a catalytic propane heater for when she's in it, but when she's on the road it gets really cold and her food, cleaning supplies, even her makeup, freezes. The tow vehicle is always trying to get rid of heat. A second heater core costs you nothing in energy because it uses heat you are dumping anyway.

Feel free to tell me why I have rocks in my head. I just thought I'd toss the idea out there. It will never sell, because it represents a modification to the tow vehicle. But to anyone with moderate skills, it's not difficult.

[Tigris99]

its doable but would be a lot of work and everytime you unhook you spew antifreeze and risk a coolant leak. Last thing you would want is to leak antifreeze all over the camper and ground. There would be a lot of hurdles to overcome to make the system work reliably.

Better off using electric heat and 7 pin connector system. Use vehicles electric power to run a heater in a properly insulated camper and that would be rather effective.

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[KennethW]

The couple's would get extremely hot and you would have to deal with expand and contract. I used a diesel parking heater. Safe and low cost. I use kerosene as it burns cleaner. Google 2k 12v car auto diesel fuel air heater.

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[tony.latham]

Use vehicles electric power to run a heater in a properly insulated camper and that would be rather effective.

DC is horrible for use as a power source for heating. You'll suck your battery down like a bucket with a hole in it. The one exception we've found is a 12V electric heater for pre-heating the bed. Even that uses about 4-5 amp/hours.

My suggestion is don't go to bed cold. If it's a nippy night build a fire, warm up and then hit it.



It's camping.

Tony

[Tigris99]

Use vehicles electric power to run a heater in a properly insulated camper and that would be rather effective.

DC is horrible for use as a power source for heating. You'll suck your battery down like a bucket with a hole in it. The one exception we've found is a 12V electric heater for pre-heating the bed. Even that uses about 4-5 amp/hours.

My suggestion is don't go to bed cold. If it's a nippy night build a fire, warm up and then hit it.



It's camping.

Tony

he was asking about while driving which is no issue. Not going to drain it while engine in TV is running.

Ya it's a bad idea when parked, but that wasnt the concern.

Biggest issue for people though is lack of insulation

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[Hamilton Felix]

I do see some valid criticisms here, thank you. Heating with electricity sourced from the car is out. I am familiar with Ohm’s Law, after 44 years of operating hydroelectric powerhouses. Running an electric heater from a small car’s charging system is not realistic. I do have a 12v “rear heater” somewhere in my junk, acquired years ago but never installed after I saw its current draw; it came with a 30 amp fuse and heavy wiring.

I understand the concern about leaking coolant. I’m sure nearly all of us are familiar with air hose quick connect fittings where the female end seals but the male end dumps air. But I’m not sure everyone is familiar with hydraulic quick connects that seal on both fittings (if you have a tractor with loader or backhoe, you probably are). I was thinking of something like that. Teeing into the heater hoses and running hose lines underneath, to the back of the car, is not rocket science. Adding a bit of closed cell foam pipe insulation would be easy. Still, it is a significant modification to the tow vehicle, so when you change vehicles...

I recall a 1966 trip with my folks in a 1964 VW camper that had an onboard gasoline furnace. I doubt I’d find one of those today. I’m thinking of a heater I can run when I’m not in the trailer, but driving down the highway. A small propane catalytic heater or even an Aladdin lamp (equal to a 60w bulb for light, but equal to a 750w heater in thermal output) would do the trick when we are in the trailer (we’d be sleeping in Wiggy’s bags, so the heater will be only a convenience when we’re awake), so long as we remember to crack a window or vent. And, except for a tiny 12v fan on the heater core, it’s “free” energy (yeah I know, TANSTAAFL, but it’s heat we’re throwing away).

I want a very light trailer, and a spare heater core from my junk collection wouldn’t weigh much. I will probably have a better idea about feasibility after I nail down more details about the trailer, and spend some time under the tow vehicle (9th generation Corolla, manual trans). We know we want light, aerodynamic, and simple. No plumbing, so long as I can put a 5 gal water jug with spigot on an upper galley shelf when we stop. No A/C, but possibly a hatch where I could slip in a small window mount if we knew we’d be camping in hot weather and near 120vac power. My wife did say she wants decent insulation for cold weather.

I’ll kick the idea around as I learn more about tiny trailers.

[Esteban]

Perhaps an externally vented Propex propane heater like the propex-hs2000-heater-and-thermostat-kit would work well for a teardrop trailer?

Helpful links:
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=67408 a TNTTT discussion thread about Propex heaters
https://www.propexheatsource.com/heaters/
https://www.propexheatsource.com/teardr ... r-heaters/
http://westyventures.com/propex.html
http://www.westyventures.com/Heatsourcebrochure.pdf

I have no experience with them. They are not inexpensive.

[KennethW]

Like the porpex heater the diesel parking heater can be used on the go and is safe they're light and rather low cost (under $200. For a fully vented forced air furnuce.)

[Hamilton Felix]

There are some options worth investigating! Diesel or kerosene would be much safer than that gasoline furnace I recall. I have a wall mounted direct vent 35,000 BTU propane heater at home. A tiny version of that might be good in a trailer.

The hot water heat sounded good because it is "free" energy, but it may be more trouble than it's worth. Certainly, one can do it; it's not complicated. But it has limitations and may be awkward.

So many possiblities, so many things to try out. Here's to experimentation.

[tony.latham]

I've thought about putting one of these together:



But in reality, if it's cold enough to need a heater for camping, it's time to head for the barn.



Tony

[Tigris99]

ok there is one major thing to point out (though obviously not the most efficient) is that there are 100s of thousands of cars out there using electric heat daily. Does everyone think that people that own electric cars only live where its warm or just deal with freezing in the winter????

Think many here havent caught up with the technology these days. Though would be challenging to find something that has a respectable price tag that can provide electric heat. Not as efficient but obviously many car manufacturers have it worked out pretty well.

Running gas powered heat in a camper while driving down the road I see that going horribly wrong in many ways. Definately more efficient but there is a lot of caution and planning needed here to make work safely.

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[tony.latham]

..there are 100s of thousands of cars out there using electric heat daily.

If you are talking about internal combustion vehicles, they, of course, are using heat scavenged from the engine's cooling system.

Think many here havent caught up with the technology these days.

But perhaps you're referring to how Tesla and the other electric cars heat their cabins. Here it is direct from Tesla:

"First, the heating. This is relatively straightforward. We replace the heater matrix, which would have had engine coolant running through it, with an electric heater that has 400 volts running through it. The clever bit of the design is to ensure that we have a safe system that also minimises the drain on the car’s battery pack (or Energy Storage System (ESS), as we call it).

So we use what’s called a Positive Temperature Coefficient (PTC) heater. It’s basically a resistor that increases its resistance as it heats up, thus limiting the current it can draw. That way it will never get too hot. Why do we use 400 volts for the heater? Well, unlike every other car, we’ve got 400 volts available, so we might as well use that — it means considerably reduced currents along the cables that run from the ESS at the back of the car to the heater at the front. And with the heater capable of pumping out 4 kilowatts, that should keep the cabin nice and toasty."

And I was planning to downsize my Group 27... But to get this thread back to Hamilton's thoughts: I see no reason you couldn't put a heating core and fan in a tiny camper that was properly plumbed from your cooling system --it'd heat your cold toes up! It would just be a matter of rigging it up with the proper hardware and interior design.



Tony

[Hamilton Felix]

LOL! Amused by that Tesla text. That resistor that increases its resistance as it heats up, so it actually functions as a current limter, is pretty well known. It's called a light bulb (actually, any resistor does it to some extent, and it's how the MAF sensor in modern car engines functions). OK, old tech, but everyone in the electrical field knows a light bulb can be used to limit current. No matter how Tesla phrases it, they're still talking about resistive heat, and it takes a lot of watts to make enough BTUs to heat a car.

I'm going think about this some more. I like the "free heat" part, but I don't want installation to be a royal PITA. The more I learn, the more I find there is to learn. When I started looking into teardrops, I thought they had to be that shape. Now I've learned that "teardrop" is a genre, not just a shape. I still want the most lightweight and aerodynamic camper I can come up with.

Heck, if I was only concerned about keeping it warm, I'd paint my camper flat black. But I might want to camp in hot weather, too.

[Tigris99]

..there are 100s of thousands of cars out there using electric heat daily.

If you are talking about internal combustion vehicles, they, of course, are using heat scavenged from the engine's cooling system.

Think many here havent caught up with the technology these days.

But perhaps you're referring to how Tesla and the other electric cars heat their cabins. Here it is direct from Tesla:

"First, the heating. This is relatively straightforward. We replace the heater matrix, which would have had engine coolant running through it, with an electric heater that has 400 volts running through it. The clever bit of the design is to ensure that we have a safe system that also minimises the drain on the car’s battery pack (or Energy Storage System (ESS), as we call it).

So we use what’s called a Positive Temperature Coefficient (PTC) heater. It’s basically a resistor that increases its resistance as it heats up, thus limiting the current it can draw. That way it will never get too hot. Why do we use 400 volts for the heater? Well, unlike every other car, we’ve got 400 volts available, so we might as well use that — it means considerably reduced currents along the cables that run from the ESS at the back of the car to the heater at the front. And with the heater capable of pumping out 4 kilowatts, that should keep the cabin nice and toasty."

And I was planning to downsize my Group 27... But to get this thread back to Hamilton's thoughts: I see no reason you couldn't put a heating core and fan in a tiny camper that was properly plumbed from your cooling system --it'd heat your cold toes up! It would just be a matter of rigging it up with the proper hardware and interior design.



Tony

no talking the electric cars out there. Internal combustion I would have said 10s of millions

I've see a handful of electric cars in my area which is rural and gets damn cold during the winter (these people obviously have garages and such because storing electric cars out in the cold is a bad idea). Recent trip to large cities there ate electric cars and smart cars EVERYWHERE. at least the areas I was in I saw 1 in 20 cars are electric.

obviously using engine coolant from a standard vehicle is a great option, just A LOT to consider and design around. A vehicle that already has rear heat is a major plus though.

Was never trying to be negative about any option, just that electric is the easiest of all as requires very little design work. Far from the most efficient of course. Have something using propane or similar to heat while driving down the road is dangerous. Using the vehicles coolant system would be the most work but possibly the safest and least taxing on the tow vehicle.


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[Tomterrific]

Run an exhaust pipe through the camper. A flex hose would be needed at the hitch. Don't drive with a canary in the camper!

Tt