4X4 Suggestions

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Re: 4X4 Suggestions

Postby dbhosttexas » Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:44 am

Dahlia47 wrote:I like older vehicles, and a simpler engine...its what we used on the mountain growing up.
My current truck is a nissan frontier 2014 . HUsband has a 2009 nissan titan. The plastic parts come lose crack the sensors always fail and need replaced. I also prefer a standard transmission. That is very hard to find in new vehicles.


There are no shortage of advantages to newer vehicles. Abundant safety tech, and in theory anyway improved fuel efficiency. However honestly gas mileage does not appear to be the slightest concern of any of the MFGs as that seems to be stagnant, and in the overall scope is radicallyd own from the 1980s.

However the advantages of the classics can not be overstated. They are vastly simpler machines that are designed for owner / operator maintennance / repair.

The main issue is that the market isn't really there to make it worthwhile for a manufacturer to design, build, and market a truly affordable, simple to maintain, rugged, and capable off roader. THe market has pushed for basically bloated station wagons.

To get what you want, you will want to source up a classic, and honestly, get into a restoration project on it. A full on, proper restoration, and honestly careful maintenance will get and keep you in the vehicle you desire.

What you are looking for is as I understand it.

#1. No, or at least minimal computer controls.
#2. Solid axle 4 wheel drive, or at the worst, Fords Twin Traction Beam axle 4wd.
#3. Body on frame construction.
#4. Ability to haul camping gear, but not be too big. I.E. no Suburbans or Travelalls.
#5. Ability to be repaired if needed on the side of the road with basic tools and automotive skills that have been established for over 100 years.
#6. The basic modern vehicle comforts. Roll up windows, heater, air conditioner, power steering, power brakes.
#7. Manual transmission.
#8. Ability to tow.
#9. Good off roading ability.

To me, that means a pre 1985 Full size 2 door body on frame SUV, International Harvester Scout 2, Scout 2 Traveleler, Chevrolet K5 Blazer / GMC Jimmy, Full Size Ford Bronco, Dodge Ramcharger / Plymouth Trail Duster are your options.

Of that list, the Scout 2, and Scout 2 Traveller tend to have the highest tow rating, and factory specs wise tended to being overbuilt, and simplisticly designed.

Assuming you can find a good example to restore and modify, and mind you this would be my desires speaking here, I would...

#1. Keep the 345 Cu/in V8, if it lacks the 345, get one, rebuilt properly, and swap it in. Here is where the little eelectronics come into play though. Swap in a throttle body type injection such as a Holley Pro-Jection setup. Carburretors are fine, but a simple, well tuned EFI setup will give you more power, better fuel econnomy, and less maintnenance hassles. You will likely need new exhaust by now. Do a proper dual exhaust with crossover pipe for best power and torque. No need for loud gnarly mufflers, pick some nice ones...
#2. Twin stick that Dana model 300 transfer case, this will allow you to select 4wd separate from hi and low ranges, so you get 2wd low if you want.
#3. Selectable locking differentials. The Dana model 44 differentials on the Scouts have full aftermarket support. Pick a good one. ARB are nice but super expensive. E-lockers are a push button affair and a lot less expensive.
#4. Work with your local transmission experts on what the best manual swaps nowadays are. I would go with at least a beefed up Borg Warner T5 5 speed manual IF I were to go manual, however spinal issues say automatic for me...
#5. Give it at least a 4" spring lift with sufficient fender trimming and flares to run 33x12.50 tires. No need to go bigger as you are towing, and honestly, you go much bigger, you will likely end up taking the rig to where you will end up with some expensive damage.
#6. Don't neglect self recovery equipment. Winch, Traction boards and mounts, various snatch blocks, straps, etc...
#7. Obviously don't neglect the towing, Including the wiring, hitch etc...
#8. External spare tire mount. This would be a good place for a swing away style spare tire carrier, with Jerry cans for spare fuel on either side of the spare.

I never really liked the standard Scout 2 grille, but there are reproductions available of the SS2 grille that look awesome to boot.

Anyway, that is the direction I would go with a Scout 2. The Scout 2 Traveller is a variation on the same rig, just longer with a fiberglass instead of a steel roof...

There are still companies out there that specialize in these rigs. The one my family has used, my brother is a big Scout guy as well, is Super Scout Specialists.
https://www.superscoutspecialists.com/
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Re: 4X4 Suggestions

Postby tony.latham » Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:01 am

The plastic parts come lose crack the sensors always fail and need replaced.


That's a brand problem. The answer is to not buy another Nissan. I've been driving Tacomas since 2007. Stuff doesn't break. (Yes, you pay for what you get.)

For all of my adult life, I drove 4x4s for a living. Lots of off-road stuff. I'm guessing it was about 1995 when I was told we were going to trucks with automatic transmissions. The agency made the shift (pun intended) because of the resale price advantage and the cost of clutch replacements. I about crapped. Was this the end of the world?

I was wrong. Automatic transmissions do great off-road.

Now... I'm not going to change your mind. :thinking:

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Re: 4X4 Suggestions

Postby dbhosttexas » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:16 pm

tony.latham wrote:
The plastic parts come lose crack the sensors always fail and need replaced.


That's a brand problem. The answer is to not buy another Nissan. I've been driving Tacomas since 2007. Stuff doesn't break. (Yes, you pay for what you get.)

For all of my adult life, I drove 4x4s for a living. Lots of off-road stuff. I'm guessing it was about 1995 when I was told we were going to trucks with automatic transmissions. The agency made the shift (pun intended) because of the resale price advantage and the cost of clutch replacements. I about crapped. Was this the end of the world?

I was wrong. Automatic transmissions do great off-road.

Now... I'm not going to change your mind. :thinking:

Tony


Doesn't meet the OPs requirements, but yeah, it is REALLY hard to go wrong with Toyotas... However current models are sadly not the simple machines that they once made. They do still have a reputation for building quality...
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Re: 4X4 Suggestions

Postby Socal Tom » Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:50 pm

dbhosttexas wrote:
Dahlia47 wrote:I like older vehicles, and a simpler engine...its what we used on the mountain growing up.
My current truck is a nissan frontier 2014 . HUsband has a 2009 nissan titan. The plastic parts come lose crack the sensors always fail and need replaced. I also prefer a standard transmission. That is very hard to find in new vehicles.


There are no shortage of advantages to newer vehicles. Abundant safety tech, and in theory anyway improved fuel efficiency. However honestly gas mileage does not appear to be the slightest concern of any of the MFGs as that seems to be stagnant, and in the overall scope is radicallyd own from the 1980s.

However the advantages of the classics can not be overstated. They are vastly simpler machines that are designed for owner / operator maintennance / repair.

The main issue is that the market isn't really there to make it worthwhile for a manufacturer to design, build, and market a truly affordable, simple to maintain, rugged, and capable off roader. THe market has pushed for basically bloated station wagons.

To get what you want, you will want to source up a classic, and honestly, get into a restoration project on it. A full on, proper restoration, and honestly careful maintenance will get and keep you in the vehicle you desire.

What you are looking for is as I understand it.

#1. No, or at least minimal computer controls.
#2. Solid axle 4 wheel drive, or at the worst, Fords Twin Traction Beam axle 4wd.
#3. Body on frame construction.
#4. Ability to haul camping gear, but not be too big. I.E. no Suburbans or Travelalls.
#5. Ability to be repaired if needed on the side of the road with basic tools and automotive skills that have been established for over 100 years.
#6. The basic modern vehicle comforts. Roll up windows, heater, air conditioner, power steering, power brakes.
#7. Manual transmission.
#8. Ability to tow.
#9. Good off roading ability.

To me, that means a pre 1985 Full size 2 door body on frame SUV, International Harvester Scout 2, Scout 2 Traveleler, Chevrolet K5 Blazer / GMC Jimmy, Full Size Ford Bronco, Dodge Ramcharger / Plymouth Trail Duster are your options.

Of that list, the Scout 2, and Scout 2 Traveller tend to have the highest tow rating, and factory specs wise tended to being overbuilt, and simplisticly designed.

Assuming you can find a good example to restore and modify, and mind you this would be my desires speaking here, I would...

#1. Keep the 345 Cu/in V8, if it lacks the 345, get one, rebuilt properly, and swap it in. Here is where the little eelectronics come into play though. Swap in a throttle body type injection such as a Holley Pro-Jection setup. Carburretors are fine, but a simple, well tuned EFI setup will give you more power, better fuel econnomy, and less maintnenance hassles. You will likely need new exhaust by now. Do a proper dual exhaust with crossover pipe for best power and torque. No need for loud gnarly mufflers, pick some nice ones...
#2. Twin stick that Dana model 300 transfer case, this will allow you to select 4wd separate from hi and low ranges, so you get 2wd low if you want.
#3. Selectable locking differentials. The Dana model 44 differentials on the Scouts have full aftermarket support. Pick a good one. ARB are nice but super expensive. E-lockers are a push button affair and a lot less expensive.
#4. Work with your local transmission experts on what the best manual swaps nowadays are. I would go with at least a beefed up Borg Warner T5 5 speed manual IF I were to go manual, however spinal issues say automatic for me...
#5. Give it at least a 4" spring lift with sufficient fender trimming and flares to run 33x12.50 tires. No need to go bigger as you are towing, and honestly, you go much bigger, you will likely end up taking the rig to where you will end up with some expensive damage.
#6. Don't neglect self recovery equipment. Winch, Traction boards and mounts, various snatch blocks, straps, etc...
#7. Obviously don't neglect the towing, Including the wiring, hitch etc...
#8. External spare tire mount. This would be a good place for a swing away style spare tire carrier, with Jerry cans for spare fuel on either side of the spare.

I never really liked the standard Scout 2 grille, but there are reproductions available of the SS2 grille that look awesome to boot.

Anyway, that is the direction I would go with a Scout 2. The Scout 2 Traveller is a variation on the same rig, just longer with a fiberglass instead of a steel roof...

There are still companies out there that specialize in these rigs. The one my family has used, my brother is a big Scout guy as well, is Super Scout Specialists.
https://www.superscoutspecialists.com/


What ever you pick make sure spare parts are available. I'm not sure where Scouts fall on that. Personally I'd avoid anything built between 1975 and about 1980. The smog controls and stuff they did to the engines made them all junk IMO.
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Re: 4X4 Suggestions

Postby Modstock » Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:17 pm

Dahlia47 wrote:I like older vehicles, and a simpler engine...its what we used on the mountain growing up.
My current truck is a nissan frontier 2014 . HUsband has a 2009 nissan titan. The plastic parts come lose crack the sensors always fail and need replaced. I also prefer a standard transmission. That is very hard to find in new vehicles.
I'd probably keep whatcha got unless they are 2wd. Even then, invest in some tougher tires and air them suckers down to 20psi . You'll need a small compressor to air back up you can hook up to the battery with alligator clips.
That should be enough to get you around most dirt roads. (If your doing miles of dirt roads)
I call it "floating on marshmallows".

Yes Nissans have cheap interiors, I fix at least one seat a week but if it's reliable for the city you'll be OK.

Buck up when it comes to sensors, cheap Amazon sensors always fail.
Autozone is better quality.


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Re: 4X4 Suggestions

Postby popper » Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:32 pm

There is always toyota but you will pay for their trucks. Used values on toyota trucks has kept me away from them, fj40, 60, 80, 100, 120.. all bring big bucks.

Being into mpg myself I'm impressed with some of the awd car offerings lately. They won't tow as much but 1000 to 2000 pounds there are some options that do alright in mild off roading.
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Re: 4X4 Suggestions

Postby Squigie » Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:59 pm

Dahlia47 wrote:I like older vehicles, and a simpler engine...its what we used on the mountain growing up.
My current truck is a nissan frontier 2014 . HUsband has a 2009 nissan titan. The plastic parts come lose crack the sensors always fail and need replaced. I also prefer a standard transmission. That is very hard to find in new vehicles.

Don't buy Nissan, Chrysler, or Dodge, and most of 'your' problems will go away.
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Re: 4X4 Suggestions

Postby MtnDon » Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:33 pm

popper wrote:There is always toyota but you will pay for their trucks. Used values on toyota trucks has kept me away from them, fj40, 60, 80, 100, 120.. all bring big bucks.



To me it is all relative. The Tacoma cost us more than many other brands. But as I stated earlier, since 2007 when we bought it used it has traveled over 250K miles and never have we needed a tow truck, or a repair that was not regular maintenance or a factory recall. We may have paid more initially but never had unscheduled repairs and the inconveniences that go along with that. That may be hard to place a price tag on, but I have zero regrets about buying the Taco.

Prior to the purchase of the Taco pretty much every vehicle (Jeeps and Fords mainly since 1985) needed a tow truck and/or some repair that does not occur on most people's regular maintenance list. The Hondas (Civics and Fit) have been as reliable as the Taco. For us at least.
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Re: 4X4 Suggestions

Postby popper » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:49 pm

Socal Tom wrote:
What ever you pick make sure spare parts are available. I'm not sure where Scouts fall on that. Personally I'd avoid anything built between 1975 and about 1980. The smog controls and stuff they did to the engines made them all junk IMO.
Tom


I agree. I would stay away from the whole decade from 1975 to 1985. On the more popular models of pre75 stuff they can be considered classics so reproduction parts are available for those popular ones. And carburetors are k.i.s.s. on them. After about 1987 the port injection setups tend to be better than the earlier ones. In between 75 and 87 its restricted low output octopus hose carbs or unrefined early fuel injection setups.

I've never had one, but there are some fairly efficient awd subarus available with manuals. Of all ages at this point. And you can tow with some of them. Probably not as reliable as a toyota but if I found one for a bargain price I might get one. Not many choices for stick shift junkies unfortunately.

I think a more modern diesel swap into a international would be combining the best of two worlds. Better efficiency in a package of all the old school things you wanted.
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