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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:51 pm
by markhusbands
Seems like a confidence inspiring dado to me.

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:28 am
by Greywolf
What are people using to seal the bottom edge of the wall when the wall laps over the frame?

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:44 am
by grantstew8
DougGirling wrote:I thought I'd share a schematic of the various methods I've encountered on this forum for attaching walls to the teardrop. They're all shown as exploded subassemblies (floor/frame and wall). The floor/frame is drawn with the representative floor of 1/2" ply over 1"x?" lumber on top of the frame (insulation and tar omitted for clarity), as used in the Generic Benroy. The different configurations are shown with the solid or sandwich walls used in the original postings. With suitable handwaving, one can substitute solid or sandwich walls to taste.

Thanks to all of you who have shared your ideas on this forum - it's a great resource!

Image



SIPs houses use a timber sole plate fixed to slab and the panel is routed (rebated) and straddles the timber. It is similar to the "Internal Cleat" option.
The walls are joined together using a similar design each wall is rebated and the tumber fills the rebates in both panels. It's like a substantial biscuit/plywood join between panels.

Here are some standard details for houses http://www.sipsindustries.com/downloads/SIPs_standard_details_190313.pdf you may find useful and want to modify to suit your design.

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:49 pm
by Bogo
I thought I'd post up the method Elddis uses for their "solid" construction method on their new caravans. (http://www.elddis.co.uk/ They have some videos showing the glue joint going together, and some actual construction shots.) It is a fully glued joint needing no other fasteners. The style of joint has been in use for ages and is a variant of the tongue and grove method. I know I saw it in use for a deck to hull joint on a boat back in the '70s. It uses a key strip that I've given a light wood color in my images. My plan was to use strips of Baltic Birch plywood for it. The key strip increases the glue joint area, as well as provides for glue joints in different planes. This means for most load directions there is some part of the joint that is in compression to backup the parts that are in shear or tension. The gluing together is done with a construction adhesive. The slots where the key piece fits into the SIP panels are routed out with a router. A bead of the construction adhesive is then made in the bottom of one slot, and the key piece fitted into place. Likely will need a bit of pounding to get it fully seated. The beads of construction adhesive are made in the bottom of the other slot, and on either side of the key piece. The wall is then fitted together.

light wood color = key strip.
dark wood color = SIP panel edge blocks.
pink = foam inside SIP panel.
turquoise = SIP panel skin.

Image #1: Having the SIP skin overlap the edge of the perpendicular SIP allows for a continuous surface that only needs a corner molding glued in place for a fully weather tight seal. With aluminum that edge can even be bent around the edge of the perpendicular SIP, or the perpendicular SIP can have it's skin wrapped around.
Image

Image #2: Key piece glued into one slot.
Image

Image #3: Joint fully glued together. All mating faces are glued.
Image

Planning for SIP sizes and the order they are assembled needs to be done. A SIP can only be installed onto key strips orientated in one direction. The reason I've been looking at this method is because I want to be able to build a set of completed SIPs with most everything installed in the downstairs shop. When they are all done I'll carry them to the barn for final assembly.

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:15 pm
by oakinteriors1
After finding this post it confirmed it.... These trailers are truly cabinets on wheels....The hole construction methods and technique.....The majority of you guys would fit right in a cabinet shop...

Here is a good reference for the weight per sheet of Baltic Birch.....
http://www.wolstenholme.com/pdf/Baltic% ... ations.pdf

Incidentally being I use BB ply for skin boats (Kayaks) I have had a pc of 1/2'' nailed outside to a fence post for about 5 yrs. with no delamination!

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:30 pm
by greaper007
Great input guys. I'm brand new so there's one thing I don't understand. In all the above examples, how do you guys fasten the structure of the trailer to the actual trailer. I imagine you're using carriage bolts and washers through the frame?

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:40 pm
by Esteban
I bolted the floor to the trailer frame. The walls were then glued and screwed to the floor.

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:03 pm
by greaper007
Thanks Steve, so it's just like residential framing where everything is built on the sill plate.

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:36 pm
by Esteban
greaper007 wrote:Thanks Steve, so it's just like residential framing where everything is built on the sill plate.

You have a number of good ways to do it. Like the examples show. Choose which ever one meets your skills, design goals, budget, available building supplies, etc.

Some people choose to build above the frame more like a house with a bottom (sill) plate and studs. I prefer walls that cover up the trailer frame. I also prefer insulated walls...recognizing solid plywood walls can be easier to build and are "good enough." Some of these choices tilt you one way or another for the way you attach walls to the floor.

I did a dado joint. Strong and took a lot of over fiddly fitting work that no longer seems necessary to me. My wall above the dado is 1.25" wide (.25" ply + .75" framing + .25" ply). Below the dado it is .75" wide (.25" outside plywood + .5" wide wood strip = .75").

If I build another teardrop I'll most likely do a rabbet joint with glue (or epoxy) and screws to attach the walls to the floor. Would use 1/8" plywood inside to save weight. Or I might do kind of a rabbet/dado with a shallow 1/4" dado.

I fiberglassed my walls which makes "stretching plywood" easy. Fiberglass is water proof and much lighter (about 1/10 the weight) than aluminum.

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:14 pm
by KCStudly
My floor is thin ply sandwich over 1-1/2 thk foam and a frame of 2x2 and 1x2 select cedar. At attachment points I included square 2x4 blocks (3-1/2 long) in the sandwich.

Before I put the top skin on I located the floor on the trailer and traced all of the mounting hole locations on the underside of the floor.

Then I drilled clearance holes up thru the marks to suit 3/8 inch threaded insert nut shafts (threaded insert link). I used these holes as pilots to drill counter bores from the top that were big enough to accept the inserts down in the hole a bit so that the tip of the bolt could fully engage without poking thru the top skin. Then I put the top skin on.

When it comes time to attach the cabin to the trailer I will bolt up thru the predrilled holes into the thread inserts (there are 16 of them spread equally over the floor).

Other people have used elevator bolts down thru from the top. The wide flat heads don't stick up as much as carriage bolts and some varieties have the wood prongs built-in.

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:41 am
by DoctahDeane
Picking up on Greywolf's post I have the same question: for the part that hangs below the platform to cover up the trailer frame, how is that sealed - before, after, etc? Seems like it would be a pain in the rear to lie on one's back to fiberglass the space between the frame and the skin after the fact (if you could even do so)?

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:27 pm
by working on it
Esteban wrote:I bolted the floor to the trailer frame. The walls were then glued and screwed to the floor.

So did I, with differences. Bolted the floor to the frame with 3/8"-16 carriage bolts, with 36 (?) TEK screws around the frame perimeter. On joining walls to floor, I used 1/4"-20 stainless carriage bolts (with stainless fender washers and acorn nuts) instead of screws, and Everbilt corner braces at the corners (of course),
corner brace.jpg
corner brace.jpg (62.87 KiB) Viewed 7749 times
and Simpson Strongtie GA-2 angle pieces along the walls.
Simpson Strongtie GA-2 angle.jpg
Simpson Strongtie GA-2 angle.jpg (94.16 KiB) Viewed 7749 times
I enlarged the holes on the corner pieces to accept the 1/4" bolt, and did the same with the hole in the center flats of each angle piece, also. Every inch of joined wood-to-wood interface got a 3/8" bead of Loctite PL Premium Adhesive as well. Once joined, and prior to painting the interior, I also used PL adhesive as a "caulk". All material is from the big orange box store.

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:30 pm
by lfrazer98
DoctahDeane wrote:Picking up on Greywolf's post I have the same question: for the part that hangs below the platform to cover up the trailer frame, how is that sealed - before, after, etc? Seems like it would be a pain in the rear to lie on one's back to fiberglass the space between the frame and the skin after the fact (if you could even do so)?


If I understand what you are asking, or re-asking, could an 1/8" or 1/16" rubber strip (or foam rubber) be used to fill the gap? My wall is being attached outside the frame so I can get a full 60" interior and I was wondering about any minimal gap between the frame and the portion of the wall that is covering it. I am kind of equating it to the weather stripping around my car door frame. I noticed a plastic/rubber molding in Lowe's and thought it might be able to "seal" up any gaps between the frame and the wall. (I had to cut off side rails, so the outside of my angle iron is not smooth and has minor weld remnants that are making me think we need a seal there. I was thinking it could be affixed to the outside of the frame before the walls are put up, then the walls will press and seal it to the frame when attached.
http://www.worthingtondirect.com/scienc ... gn=product or http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flexco-4-x-50-x ... 4897.l4275
Has anyone else used something between the wall and frame when the side walls are outside the floor and are covering the frame?

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:54 pm
by kayakdlk
I used a tube of DAP Dynaflex 230 50 year black caulk and ran a double bead down the side of the frame (1 up top and one toward the bottom of my 2x2) before putting the walls on. After the walls were up I filled any gaps with caulk along the bottom (Note: I had fiberglassed and epoxied my side walls while they were flat on a table). That way no water will get in between the wall and frame. I also ran a bead of the same caulk on the top of my frame before mounting the floor. That stopped all squeaks when I sat down on the floor. I decided on the caulk as it would squish out and fill any imperfections and make a better seal than a gasket

Also a tube of caulk is less than $10

Dan

Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:16 pm
by lfrazer98
kayakdlk wrote:I used a tube of DAP Dynaflex 230 50 year black caulk and ran a double bead down the side of the frame (1 up top and one toward the bottom of my 2x2) before putting the walls on. After the walls were up I filled any gaps with caulk along the bottom (Note: I had fiberglassed and epoxied my side walls while they were flat on a table). That way no water will get in between the wall and frame. I also ran a bead of the same caulk on the top of my frame before mounting the floor. That stopped all squeaks when I sat down on the floor. I decided on the caulk as it would squish out and fill any imperfections and make a better seal than a gasket

Also a tube of caulk is less than $10

Dan

Thanks for the explanation, Dan. It does seem like a great idea to use the caulk instead of a gasket. I was just thinking that we might have too imperfect of an outer rail to just used a caulk. I will pass this on to my father, and after we finish grinding down the excess welds, we will see if we can just use caulk.
Thanks, again!