Brainstorm or Brainfart??????????

[b.bodemer]

Can you help a gal with electric?

Here's the skinny.............I have a shore inlet with a GFCI outlet for the galley and an outlet for the cabin. Perfect for pulling into a place that has shore power. It has worked great so far.

I had never planned on a battery for dry camping as my galley floor space was limited because I used an actual queen mattress at 80" long which then only left so much room for the lower galley space. My windows up front are low because of my profile so a tongue box up front isn't an option. But I'm thinking that a battery set up would be nice as I read plenty of posts with folks enjoying electronics or appliances when no shore power is available.
Current set up with shore inlet:


Front windows are low so tongue box not really an option


My tow vehicle is a F150. It's my work truck for when I transport a puppy or dog throughout a week for training with crates in the back and then at the end of the week the work stuff comes out and extra camping and kayaking gear goes in. Here's my idea.................Why can't I:
Put a battery in truck bed,then add an inverter . This set up would be for that week long trip or multiple day trip that I would take so the battery/inverter would not be in the back throughout the week with the dogs. It might be a pain to take it in and out of truck but no different than the folks who put in and take out their window shakers or pet cools that are not permanently mounted.

Now the inverter is good to 450 watts and my dvd player only needs 14 watts. My portable fan uses 18, my small tv uses 18, etc. I think I'm getting it now that I have to start adding up the appliances for total watts needed. The inverter from Xantrex is good for boats and rvs and it has a GFCI outlet. OK.......battery to inverter, plug dvd player into inverter. Watch movie in camp for more than one night, maybe use fan.
Here's the one I'm looking at:
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/22/p/1/pt/8/product.asp

Bigger question: Any reason I can't run my heavy duty 12 guage indoor/outdoor cord (that I'm using for shore power) from the new inverter(from truck bed) to the shore inlet on the td????? Brainstorm or brainfart ????????? Then I simply plug into the outlets I installed in the td.

Inquiring minds want to know. This would be a cool setup for powering my small fans and dvd player like the week I met my family.

So am I even close:
or

Barb

[bobhenry]

You got the answer Barb !

Even neater would be to set the truck up with dual batteries and an isolation switch so you can run on one battery or the other. A good auto electrical shop could do a neat job. Install the inverter in a cool spot under the hood and feed it off of 1 battery only when it gets low start the truck on the reserve battery then switch over to the tired one and let the truck charge it. You sould run your 120 volts to an outlet in the rear and plug in your cord and run to the teardrop feed with a heavy extention cord.

[Miriam C.]

Sounds good to "Us" You might get some droppage over the cord distance but not much. The thing to remember is number of hours you can run all that on a charge. This might help with some of the issues.
http://www.dcbattery.com/faq.html

You might also think about going under the td with smaller batteries or some sort of under over on the tongue.

Something to think about is is anyone going to be using the td while the truck is running Kayaks around.

Good luck.

[b.bodemer]

Thanks Bob and Miriam......................

At least I am on the right track. A few guys I kayak with have mentioned the 2nd battery under the truck hood and a isolation switch so at least I know I am heading in the right direction. I didn't realize the inverter could be there too.

My mechanic is a good guy who I think can give me options too. Thanks folks. I was hoping it wasn't all a brainfart on my part!

Miriam...........the td in camp without the truck won't happen too often. If Rose and Ocoee get a chance to join in the camping fun I would really hate to be on a river all day kayaking and away from them. The battery idea is just coming with the added plus of having a radio or dvd player going here and there. My needs wouldn't be that high like kitchen appliances and such.

thanks for the quick responses.

Maybe now I can do a little electrical dance since I'm starting to get it.

Barb

[madjack]

Barb, you will want the inverter as close to the battery as possible since there is more loss with DCV than with ACV......

[ARKPAT]

b.bodemer Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject:

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Thanks Bob and Miriam......................

At least I am on the right track. A few guys I kayak with have mentioned the 2nd battery under the truck hood and a isolation switch so at least I know I am heading in the right direction. I didn't realize the inverter could be there too.

My mechanic is a good guy who I think can give me options too. Thanks folks. I was hoping it wasn't all a brainfart on my part!

Miriam...........the td in camp without the truck won't happen too often. If Rose and Ocoee get a chance to join in the camping fun I would really hate to be on a river all day kayaking and away from them. The battery idea is just coming with the added plus of having a radio or dvd player going here and there. My needs wouldn't be that high like kitchen appliances and such.

thanks for the quick responses.

Maybe now I can do a little electrical dance since I'm starting to get it.

Barb

Barb
You might want to check about the inverter is rated for outside ( rain , dust, oil, heat ) inviroment under the hood of the truck. Otherwise looks good.

Pat

[bledsoe3]

Barb, If you really wanted to keep the battery and inverter on the tear you could build a "dropped" tongue box. It looks like you could move your tongue jack forward some for clearance. Then you would basically build a box with the center recessed that would fit down over the tongue. It would only need to be big enough to hold the battery and inverter. What you end up with is two separate compartments on each side of the tongue with one lid. It keeps the battery and inverter close together as MJ mentioned, it's in a weather tight enclosure and you don't need the truck there to have power.

The down side is increased tongue weight. But that shouldn't be a problem for your truck.

[George Kraus]

Barb

What is the distance from the bottom of the window to the top of the tongue?

George

[b.bodemer]

George,
From the bottom of trim to the window is 13" but I have framing involved for my shutter/awning and that starts at 11".


Bledsoe,
I'll have to pick the battery I want and then think if a dropped tongue box, like you are suggesting would work for me. My big concern for added weight on the tongue is that this was a tilt trailer that was custom build for my mechanic for towing his motorcycle. He welded the tongue for me but there is still a bolt there too. A battery is at least 50lbs so I'm not really sure if that's ok to add all the extra weight to the tongue.

I just came from visiting my mechanic and he felt I had no room for a second battery/inverter for under the hood of my F150.

This is going to make a great project and thanks again guys for your help,
Barb

[Mary K]

As I said in my PM to ya, I think your first idea was great.



Get a good deep cycle battery, a battery box like above and the inverter you posted.

Might even think about a storage container to put both in, in the back of your truck instead of out in the open. Keeping the lid cracked for ventilation.



Connect the inverter to the battery, run your power cord from it to your existing inlet and Waaa Laaa 120VAC... Limited of course. But it should run your dvd/TV player and a fan to keep ya cool.

Other thoughts, if the power cord you have to run shore power is to long, purchase another shorter one for this application.

Good Luck, Mk

[Alphacarina]

Barb, you will want the inverter as close to the battery as possible since there is more loss with DCV than with ACV......

Correct

And the AC loss at such low wattage like she has is negligible . . . . she could use a 50' extension cord from the inverter to the AC inlet on the tear and not have a measurable loss

If you could mount a second battery (a deep cycle one) under the hood of the truck, connected with an ACR (Automatic Charging Relay) which connects it to the trucks battery only when the engine is running then you could probably mount the inverter inside, behind the seat and run an AC extension cord under the truck to the back bumper, where you could then plug your shore power cord into it

You might find it handy for other uses too - Running a drill, recharging batteries and so forth

Don

[b.bodemer]

Don,
thanks for that suggestion but I did stop by my mechanic's place today and he looked under the hood of the truck and told me I have no room for a second battery there.

On another note I did get an Optima battery today! Maybe that means I'll have to build a second teardrop to move the battery over to!

Barb

[Miriam C.]

Barb, you will want the inverter as close to the battery as possible since there is more loss with DCV than with ACV......

Correct

And the AC loss at such low wattage like she has is negligible . . . . she could use a 50' extension cord from the inverter to the AC inlet on the tear and not have a measurable loss

If you could mount a second battery (a deep cycle one) under the hood of the truck, connected with an ACR (Automatic Charging Relay) which connects it to the trucks battery only when the engine is running then you could probably mount the inverter inside, behind the seat and run an AC extension cord under the truck to the back bumper, where you could then plug your shore power cord into it

You might find it handy for other uses too - Running a drill, recharging batteries and so forth

Don

Don can she use an ACR with the battery in the back of the truck?

[Alphacarina]

Don can she use an ACR with the battery in the back of the truck?

Yes - In fact, I'm going to use an ACR with the battery located in the tear . . . . and to make things even MORE complicated, my Engel fridge will sit in the back of the car . . . . running off the Optima located in the tear

With the car running, it will charge the Optima in the tear. With the car not running, but plugged in to campground power, a battery charger takes over, and runs the fridge, still in the car. With no camp power, a solar panel keeps things topped off. When the A/C is needed and I have no campground power, a Honda EU2000 powers everything

As Jack correctly pointed out, the battery and the inverter need to be fairly close to one another, because the inverter draws many amps from the battery through LARGE cables and they need to be kept as short as practically possible - The cables CAN be made longer, but then they need to be even BIGGER

No reason the battery and the inverter can't both be in the tear, IF there's room. Both can also be in the truck . . . . but the inverter needs to be kept out of the weather and it needs good ventilation

Don