#10 stranded wire and receptacles...

[kayakrguy]

Hi folks,

I am almost ready to finish installing electrical stuff. I have #10 stranded AC wire for the T. The problem is that #10 seems awfully large to put under the screw downs on the receptacles (all of which are GFCI, as is the connector from the T to camp power source) So, my question is has anybody used # 10 wire for their T and were they able to get the wire to match well with the receptacles?

Thanks,

Jim

[madjack]

Jim. we used 14ga for everything except the battery to fuse block(10ga) and the 120Vac to circuit breakers(12 ga)
madjack

[Leon]

10 gauge is way too heavy for a standard outlet. The outlets you get in standard hardware stores are not made for stranded wire, that requires a different terminal. If you are using 10 gauge stranded for "safety", all the RV manufacturers use solid wire and meet RVIA requirements. Too big of a wire in the wrong recepticle is asking for trouble.
Also, all the outlets don't have to be GFI, as the first one in the chain protects all the outlets after it.

[Alphacarina]

I agree with Leon - #10 wire is for 30 amp circuits and you don't even need a #10 main power cable . . . . there's certainly no need for it anywhere in the tear's AC circuits. Travel trailers with central A/C, microwaves and other high draw circuits use a #10 wire to connect them to the power pole . . . . no #10 wire anywhere inside those trailers

#12 is for 20 amp circuits and like Jack, I'll use #14 since I don't have anything anywhere which would draw even 10 amps

Don

[kayakrguy]

Hi folks,

Ok, I got the deal about #10 and receptacles...too big and yes, I don't have anything except the AC that draws big amps....9, I think. What I am a little unclear about is stranded vs solid wire. I thought for marine and road applications stranded was less likely to break????

As to the GFCI, I do understand that the first GFCI in a circuit is good to guard everything downstream. Wife, however wants GFCI at both outlets and so....besides, redundancy won't hurt anything except the ol $$$$.

thanks, guys, I appreciate the advice,

Jim

[Ken A Hood]

I thought/read/heard/remembered (somewhere) that you can't wire GFIC's to each other; that they need to be on their own circuit.

Not sure if I'm reading it right thought.

[madjack]

Jim, anything that is wired thru(downstreamof) a GFI is protected...I use a GFI protected extension cord to supply power to the tear and subsequently GFI protect everything in the tear...

...stranded wire vs solid...the biggest thing is ease of use of stranded wire vs solid wire in most applications relating to a tear...solid can be more susceptible(maybe) to breaking due to vibration or mishandling but has to be vibrated constantly or severely mishandled...as long as it is protected and not mishandled, the choice of types is up to you...
madjack

[bdosborn]

Jim, anything that is wired thru(downstreamof) a GFI is protected...I use a GFI protected extension cord to supply power to the tear and subsequently GFI protect everything in the tear...

Depends on how you wire it. There's a line side and a load side, the load side has GFI protection but the line side doesn't. Look at the instructions that come with the receptacle to make sure you're getting the protection you want.

Also, receptacles are rated for stranded wire if they have a screw terminal with a metal saddle on the screw. Most receptacles will accept a #10, its just a pain to get it terminated properly.
Bruce

[kayakrguy]

Bd is right...if you don't wire downstream correctly, you can lose the GFCI protection downstream from the GFCI receptacle e.g. keep the black power wire on the brass terminal, the white wire on the steel terminal and green wire on the green screw...if you reverse the black and white or don't connect the green, you don't get GFCI downstream.

The GFCI's I have obviously are NOT intended for # 10 stranded wire.
They only have the screw, no metal clamp so it looks like they are intended for household, solid copper installation--no surprise they are from HD....

Two points I's like to hear about...1) When wiring my house, I always used #12 solid wire and all circuits were 20 AMP (heavy use, like appliances had dedicated circuits--the old Victorian we had originally had two circuits for the whole house--I put 11 in the kitchen?pantry alone!
Anyhow, my electrical inspector said that solid copper was used almost exclusively for residential applications and stranded wire was the norm in commercial wiring--true??

2) I have ALWAYS understood that you NEVER connect a smaller wire (say a #12) downstream from a larger, less resistance wire (say a #10) unless the smaller wire is protected by a fuse/circuit breaker. To me that is a no brainer but sometimes what is said on the board makes me wonder if people use that rule???

Thanks again, everybody for the help...I am off to get some wire <G>

Jim

[kayakrguy]

Ken,

I have not heard or read anything about you CAN'T wire GFCI's to each other. If that is true it is a surprise to me. Electrical Code allows you to protect a cirtuit with just one GFCI plug on the front end under the right conditions (or at least it did when I was rewiring our houses)

And, probably, most of the time that is sufficient. But, GFCI receptacles can fail...the test button is there for a reason!! If they do...and if you don't know that, you have no protection downstream from that receptacle.

Wifey wants GFCI at each receptacle....not absolutely necessary but not, to the best of my knowledge dangerous....if I am wrong I hope someone will tell me before I light up the T in unintended ways!!

Thanks for the heads up,

Jim

[bdosborn]

Anyhow, my electrical inspector said that solid copper was used almost exclusively for residential applications and stranded wire was the norm in commercial wiring--true??
Jim

Its about 50-50 on the projects I work on. What I hear is that stranded is easier to pull and terminate but the old guys like solid better because they feel the terminations don't come loose over time. Me, I like stranded.

Bruce

[bdosborn]

I have not heard or read anything about you CAN'T wire GFCI's to each other.

Its not a problem, its done all the time. If you use a GFCI at the first outlet in a circuit, you can have GFCI protection at regular receptacles downstream by wiring them to the load side of the GFCI. But, all the receptacles will go down if that one GFCI trips. You have to use GFCI receptacles throughout if you wire to the line side of each receptacle. Its more expensive but only the receptacle that trips will go down, the remaining will still be energized.

GFCIs go bad when they're exposed to a lot of transient voltages. Thats why I used a GFCI for each receptacle. There's a new transient voltage standard now for GFCIs so it might not be such a problem in the future.

Here's an articles on how GFCI works:
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_think_gfci/
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_gfci_basics/
http://www.codecheck.com/gfci_principal.htm

Bruce

[madjack]

...some thoughts...
1) I have not heard of the wiring GFi's back to back is a no-no...I have seen it done and have done it, so I hope it is OK...

2) wiring in most commercial installations is done thru conduit, using stranded wire(single conductor) to facilitate fishing it thru the conduit...

3).you are correct in the fact that all wire should be protected by an appropriate sized fuse...I think in most of the case you are referring to, a larger feed wire is brought into a fuse block or circuit breakers and a smaller wire run from there...thus giving proper protection to the smaller wire...example...10ga wire from battery(w/inline30A fuse) to fuse block...14ga wire from fuse block to fixtures...
madjack

[Ken A Hood]

I think I got mixed up; the AC panel I have have one built in, and on the back/side there are connections that state only 1 side wired will allow for the outlets to be protected..

My bad..

[kayakrguy]

MJ..

Your point about conduit and commercial applications....my understanding via my old wiring inspector is that in commercial applications stranded wire must always be in conduit...so it won't stretch etc...is that true??? Don't have the NEC handy...

Jim