#10 stranded wire and receptacles...

[madjack]

Jim, which came first...the chicken or the egg...your last question is technical and would require reading the NEC...something I have never done nor intend to do...my answers/explanations are from practical experiences............
madjack

[bdosborn]

I can answer that one:

Yes the NEC requires physical protection of wire. Its conduit or MC cable for most commercial applications. Its the cover on NM (Romex) for residential. It doesn't make a difference if its stranded or solid, it needs protection.

And once again, you see as much solid as you do stranded in #12 and #10 in commercial applications. Code doesn't require one or the other, its the ampacity of the wire that matters. Its all stranded once you get up to a #8 because its too hard to work with solid conductors that big.

I don't have my code book here but I can get it out sometime if you have more specific questions...

Bruce

[kayakrguy]

, MJ,

Damn, I thought YOU"D be the one to read the NEC! You work from experience and I do hearsay.... Well, experience trumps hearsay!

Bruce, thanks for saving us !

My wiring inspector guy said 'conduit' not 'protection' and I assumed (wrongly???) that he meant pvc, metal conduit etc for stranded wire. I assumed the wire would have some sort of vinyl protection.

But I suspect I just stepped into the 'devil's details' of what 'protection'
means in the NEC.

Bruce, good to know that you do have access to NEC. Thanks for sharing that...

Jim

[Joanne]

Jim,

If you have the #10 wire in hand and want to use it, maybe you should consider buying crimp-on ring connecters and use them to attach to whatever plug or switch you need.



You probably should check with those more knowledgeable than I to ensure that this is a safe option.

Joanne

[bdosborn]

You know, I never see those on 120V wires. I bet Chuck would know why.
Bruce

[Nitetimes]

You know, I never see those on 120V wires. I bet Chuck would know why.
Bruce

I dunno, electricians around here use them all the time. Particularly for connecting stranded wire to light switches and such.

[kayakrguy]

Joanne, BD, Rich,

Joanne, you're suggestion is a good one and I do have the ring connectors but for some reason brain didn't consider that option with #10 in receptacle-- I used those on my fuse box. I looked at things after reading your note and one problem I see is that the wire is so big that the box is gonna be awfully tight...so I'll probably use #12 solid and strap the wire down well so that it doesn't move... Now, if I do have a problem with it breaking etc, then I'll backtrack to your suggestion and get bigger boxes.

BD, Rich--your notes make me wonder if there are regional variations in the way craftsmen do their work??? Sure seems that way when you read stuff about plumbing/electrical/construction stuff. I mean that while electricians will follow NEC and local codes, HOW they do that may differ from place to place?

Thanks, folks, I appreciate the advice...

Jim

[toypusher]

Guess I don't understand why you don't just use 12GA stranded for your 120V side (possibly with spade connectors on the ends to connect to recepticles, etc)? 12Ga should serve the same whether solid or stranded and stranded is much easier in a teardrop.

[kayakrguy]

Hi Kerry,

Your question makes perfect sense. I happen to have #10 stranded and # 12 solid on hand...part of a collection of left over wire from mine and other people's projects. Since the AC wire runs are short--less than 2 feet to one repceptacle in the gallery and only about 4 feet to the receptacle in the cabin, I think the 12 solid should be fine, provided I strap it down well so that it doesn't move. If id proves to be a problem I'll do what you suggest....get some 12 stranded and as Joanne said, crimp some ring connectors on the wire....

Hope all is well with you and yours,

Jim

[Alphacarina]

If you have the #10 wire in hand and want to use it, maybe you should consider buying crimp-on ring connecters and use them to attach to whatever plug or switch you need.

Yes, Joanne - That's the industry standard way of making connections with stranded wire to recepticales which aren't designed for stranded wire

Don

[Chuck Craven]

You know, I never see those on 120V wires. I bet Chuck would know why.
Bruce

On duplex outlets the screws can’t be removed with out damaging the outlet.
You have to remove the screws to use a ring terminal. You can use crimp-on terminals for 120 v ac if the right terminal / strip rated for the wire is used and the voltage and current rated is used. #10 wire for a 15-amp outlet is not recommended for 120v ac outlets. You should use #14 wire. The outlet is made for #14 wire. A 20-amp outlet is made for #12 wire. Most electricians do not use terminal lugs. It takes to long to put on and sticks out from the outlet making it harder to squeeze the outlet in the box. Sense most electricians bid on jobs per job not per hour rate. Time is money!

Chuck

[Alphacarina]

On duplex outlets the screws can’t be removed with out damaging the outlet

While it's true that the screws are designed not to back all the way out (strictly as a convenience to the user) it doesn't 'damage' the outlet (or the screw for that matter) in any way to remove and reinstall them using ring terminals

I installed electronic navigation systems for the Air Force for about 30 years, most all utilizing stranded wiring and we used ring terminals on every stranded connection and never damaged any outlet by removing and reusing the screws . . . . and we did this on literally thousands of outlets of all types. Most all of this equipment was certified to FAA standards and installed accordingly

Just to 'triple check' I just removed all 5 terminal screws from an outlet that I bought at Lowes last week and I had no trouble putting them back in and nothing was 'damaged' in any way

Don

[Chuck Craven]

Will I guess the cheaper outlets you can get away with removing the screws. I normally use Hubble outlets, they rivet the clamp plate on the end of the screws. When you take out the screws the clamp plate breaks off. But each manufacture does it different!

Chuck

[cleonard]

On duplex outlets the screws can’t be removed with out damaging the outlet.
Chuck

It varies. On most the screws can be removed. On others they can not. Sometimes the end of the screw is swagged so it can't be easily removed. These usually do come out and can be reinserted and sometimes not. On others they use a floating plate that the screw goes into. On this kind you can put a straight wire into a hole behind the screw and tightening the screw pulls the plate against the wire making the connection. If you unscrew the wire on this type the plate falls when the screw is removed. Then there is nothing to put the screw back into.

The simple thing to do is to just buy a single outlet an see if you can remove and reinsert the screws. When you know it is a good type buy more.


One note about wire sizes. It is always OK to use larger wire than called for by the amperage of the circuit. It is like a chain, only as strong as the weakest link. The breaker needs to be sized for that weakest link.

[Alphacarina]

Will I guess the cheaper outlets you can get away with removing the screws. I normally use Hubble outlets, they rivet the clamp plate on the end of the screws. When you take out the screws the clamp plate breaks off

I agree with you there . . . . but you can legally use clamp type outlets with stranded wire, can't you? No need for a ring terminal if all your outlets are of ther clamp type . . . . you just can't (legally) use stranded wire under a screw head, so on those types of outlets, you would need a ring terminal

Don