lighting question - for a tiny trailer

[Andrea]

We're gutting a 14' 1962 Aloha trailer. The living space is 10' long by 6' wide. We're not doing a full vintage restoral. We're shooting for "comfortable tent" setup with a simple 12V DC system for lights, a stereo (might be reduced to a boombox), and the vent. We'll have the 30A AC with breaker box, the GFCI circuit breaker and the two 110/120VAC circuits for add'l heating or cooling if req'd (I'm still trying to decide if the Atwood heater is really worth our investment because we're not big campers, more like fun campers. Something like the furnace, though, might change our tune - and break the budget!).

Originally, I did have a budget. A naive budget, now that I'm getting into the actual nuts and bolts of buying the nuts and bolts.

Which brings me to the conumdrum of my 12VDC plan. I really need to have spec'd out all my electrical needs before I can finally decide on my 12V plant layout. In my case, the largest factor will be the lighting draw. In researching the lighting, I've come across these spendy lights -Taylorbrite CCF lights.

Their claim is 0.625 Amps for their 7.5W linear product, with 80 lumens / watt. That would equal 600 lumens for their ~ 20" long panel is twice the price & a little less than half the intensity of the Thin-Lite recessed fixture. The Thinlite fixture though draws 2.2A for 1650 lumens @ $63. The best price I've been able to find for the Taylor product is $128. Thinlite draws 3.52 x as much current as the Taylor, for 2.75 x the light, for 49% of the cost.

How much light do I need to have in a 10'x6' trailer? Do I look at the lighting design the way I did my kitchen lighting design, i.e., layers upon layers of lighting? It seems to me that minimizing the draw on the battery is something worth spending money on because it would simplify the power requirements. But really, how much lighting does one need in a camper? Under cabinet lighting + overall lighting + (does anyone really use the reading lamp & not just a flashlight?).

What about LED products for under cabinet lighting? How do you guys feel about that? Satisfied / not? I'm leaning towards good ambient lighting & "cheaping out" on the under cabinet lighting.

Here's my current floorplan.



I'm considering 3 undercabinet lights along the back end (left of the door) of the trailer. The wheelwell opposite the door will be where we put the stove. I'm definitely interested in overhead lighting there. The front of the trailer (the big, blank - still unplanned space) will have the seating / gaucho bed / dinette / berth & should have lighting there. The wheelwell to the right of the door will have the 100qt cooler & some under cabinet lighting.

All that lighting sounds expensive to me. Either in AAAs or 12V deep cycle draw. I'm not sure I need it all.

I could use some advice. Let's see if I can make bullet items out of my confusion.

1) Has anyone ever used the Taylorbrite CCF lights before? How bright do you find them?
2) Is it worth spending money on more lights which draw fewer amps? Or fewer lights which draw more amps?3) Should I worry about general ambient lighting, under cabinet lighting / both? Or do you think the CCF lights will provide sufficient light and I'm adding too many lights to a tiny space? I feel like I'm asking "How much wood would a wood chuck chuck, if a wood chuck could chuck wood?"
4) Do reading lamps in tiny trailers make any sense at all?
5) Has anyone ever replaced their propane lighting?
6) Is LED lighting (8-16 array) going to "make a difference" for undercabinet lighting? Has anyone seen the Taylor product? They're only using 3 LEDs. Are those for decoration?

Thanks,
-a

[brian_bp]

I'm fascinated by this analysis, since I find the lighting alternatives very interesting. Unfortunately, while I have a Thin-Lite fluorescent (I think a 15W ) in my travel trailer, and find it works well for general lighting for the whole 14 foot by 7 foot interior, I've never coughed up enough cash to get a Taylorbrite CCF or high-power LED... I can't help much.

There are lots of Thin-Lite models, so you can pick one more closely matched (in power consumption or light output) to the CCF for comparison.

My only other contribution might be to note that counting LEDs isn't very helpful, since individual LEDs some in a very wide range of powers, from a tiny fraction of a watt to several watts. Three LEDs could be a lousy small flashlight, or an effective car headlight, depending on the LEDs and their power supply.

Are you referring to the Taylorbrite 3"LED Recessed Round Light? That comes in 1 watt and 2.5 watt versions; based on my LED flashlights, I would expect the 1 watt to be somewhat useful for undercabinet lighting, but would go for the 2.5 watt. Imagine an incandescent bulb of about 4 times the power consumption, to roughly predict the light output.

[Andrea]

Thanks for dropping by brian. I was looking at the 15W (825 lumens - 18"x4"x1.42"?) until I found the Thinlite recessed which had 1650 lumens(cutout 19.25"x5.25"x1"). While I'm not sure if this is a technically accurate way to look at lighting I began looking at lumens per amp (or lumens / watt) as the beginning of my little cost/benefit analysis.

The CCF fixtures are $0.21 per lumen vs. $0.04 per lumen on the ThinLite. They're 5.25x more expensive while only being 1.45x more efficient based on 80 lumens / watt vs 55 lumens per watt. But here's where the specs get tricky. The Thin-Lite system has 30W on a 12V system @ 2.2A. Technically, that number should be 2.5A, so I'm not sure what's going on there b/c if you look at the lumens per Amp then the ratio changes, of course from 1.45 to 1.28. I'm assuming the higher number - lower efficiency - because I don't understand how 30/12 is supposed to be 2.2. Since I don't want to mess with adjusting the lumens / watt for some unknown, I adjust their rated draw.

But there's why my knowlege breaks down. I can read all I want about battery amp hours, but I don't have first hand knowledge. The way the engineering works out is that (2) Taylor CCF lights supplying 1600 lumens can run off of a battery rated for 75 AH for 60 hours because the two would 1.25 AH. If the 75AH battery costs $230, then each AH of draw = $0.32 for the discharge. Now the ThinLite costs to run @ 2X the CCF cost. That said, there's $193 difference (2 CCFs for 1600 lumens vs 1 ThinLite for 1650 lumens). That would take 467 AH of discharge to make up the cost. This could be feasible with good battery maintenance, but I think of total financial recovery as secondary, actually. The most important item, for me, is immeasurable, I think and that is extended battery time on any single given discharge. How would one put a cost to that factor?

Is the payback curve of the Taylor CCFs an accurate reflection of their benefit? I think I'd want more battery time between charges, but I don't know if I'm gauging things right here like luminosity, req'd light for the space; actual, usable battery time, etc. I don't know how to judge the cost/benefit against the real numbers, 'cause I've only gone tent camping with propane & flashlights.

Anyways, I appreciate the info that the 15W fluorescent (was it the 18x4x1.42 version?) lighted up the general interior. And yes, I was referring to their 3" LED rounds. Thanks for the help with that as well.

-a