buying Lithium batteries price question

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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby MtnDon » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:45 pm

Good luck with that plan, prices have been same for last 4 years and are now climbing like they are on TURBO !!
it seams when oil get cheaper Lithium goes into turbo - strange.


I'd be more worried about the present cost of LFP, if I was in real need of some new batteries. But, the cabin off grid batteries are doing fine; we were there this past weekend and even with the foreshortened winter days they reached float each day. The trailer has almost new GC-2's. So, I'll worry about costs in a few years time, with any luck.


Re
Ok, let's assume I want 300ah of nominal 12V capacity at 50% dod. What lithium cells would get me 150ah of usable power? Links please
IF I understand LFP correctly you can safely use about 80% of the LFP's capacity. That allows for never running the voltage up to the maximum and never running them down too close to the bottom end. So the equivalent of a 300 AH FLA would be something like a 180 AH LFP. More or less. We can select parts and build our own battery if we dare or care to. As well as the need to find some prismatic cells in the range of 180 AH (3.2 volts) we would need a BMS. I recently ran into an experimenter who has bought cells and BMS from these guys.... http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/ They have prismatic cells and BMS parts for sale. The user has to fabricate the cell enclosure that is needed. I am not endorsing the company, just passing along a link that some local crazy guy tinkering with electric vehicles thought used as a supplier. ...... about $250 for one 180 AH cell. Ya' need 4 plus the BMS.... probably another couple hundred bucks, depending on desired charge/discharge amperage capacity. Plus a battery charger or charging system.
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby abqlloyd » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:35 pm

I priced it out at about $1500 for 180ah including the charger.

I think I'd pay about $500 for the battery and count the charger as a one-time cost. I checked my MPPT and it isn't recommend for lithium so that would be another expense. Being an early adopter is expensive.
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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby bdosborn » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:42 pm

The technology will be mature (IMHO) when you start seeing golf courses use them. That will signal to me that the maintenance and cost-to-use is better than what I'm using currently.Besides, I just made a cool battery inter-connector out of solid copper strapping I bought off eBay....

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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby lrrowe » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:50 pm

Hi Bruce,
Can you share a photo of your inter-connector? I am interested in seeing what you built.
Thanks,
Bob
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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby MtnDon » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:56 pm

Similar to.... ?

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Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby bdosborn » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:49 pm

Yup, only I had to bend it up in the bench vise to clear the second terminal. I wrapped it in electrical tape just because it seemed like I needed to:
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All the red stuff is anti-corrosion spray. Keeps the terminals acid free.

I had to replace the existing cable because the battery walked and separated the end. Only one strand of wire was carrying the entire battery current. It must have gotten kind of hot as the shrink tubing is melted.

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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby lrrowe » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:05 am

Bruce,
Thanks for your photos. Glad you did not have a fire.
I like your copper inter-comnectors.
I would have considered them for my four 6 V battery box I plan on building. But I just ordered my complete set of 4GA custom made battery cables.
I am learning from your experience and will make sure the batteries are nice and tight and secure.
Last edited by lrrowe on Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby OverTheTopCargoTrailer » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:19 pm

abqlloyd wrote:I priced it out at about $1500 for 180ah including the charger.

I think I'd pay about $500 for the battery and count the charger as a one-time cost. I checked my MPPT and it isn't recommend for lithium so that would be another expense. Being an early adopter is expensive.


Have never seen MPPT, that would not work on lithium ??

I will post some pictures of my 600 ah 12v bank for around $1700-$1800
When done.

Since I now have real life experience vs theory, no need 4 expensive BMS on house bank
which has very low charge & discharge rate.

Bruce, when they start putting Lifep04 into golf carts it will be the year 2500, it's funny how they spend
$250 k on private club membership, $2000 on each titanium club & only $100 battery.
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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby OverTheTopCargoTrailer » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:39 pm

As far as new technology, only to the CT fraternity, Nasa were confident enough to use it on the Mars rover mission and there wasn't anyone up there to tinker with it. It was designed to last 90 days I think, that was back in 2003, it's still going with a strong battery pack, you couldn't get a much more hostile environment than that. Sure they were hand picked cells to get a near perfectly balance pack but's still just solar charged on a planet shrouded in dust storms, and it's has a heater element stuck in the on position so it drains the batteries over night. They have suffered one severe discharge but recovered. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunit ... #Fall_2012
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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby Deediggler » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:38 am

It might not be new technology, but the market is new so most of the big companies haven't got the infrastructure and R&D in yet to make the batteries as cheap as other options. I think we can all see the merits of Lithium. I'm very intrigued to see what this 600ah bank looks like. I would be even happier to see an affordable 300ah bank.
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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby OverTheTopCargoTrailer » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:32 pm

Here is a nice link


http://www.bruceschwab.com/uploads/2014genasun-handouta.pdf


My same battery if made By Genasun 1,250 ah for a boat is about $25,000
6 times more then I paid........
Pssssst the guy uses those cheap chinese batteries to boat

but its gotta be a good deal to go on a million $$$$ boat

MtnDon

they do even have a few nice features you might like for the cabin.
since your a BMS fan, might as well get the best BMS !!

http://www.bruceschwab.com/uploads/genasun-gli-manual-2014-02.pdf
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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby MtnDon » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:08 pm

Link to a dissection of an LFP battery cell.
http://liionbms.com/php/prismatic_cells.php
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby MtnDon » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:32 am

Winston brand LFP cell short circuit to destruction test. No fire but lots of smoke.....

http://gwl-power.tumblr.com/post/700178 ... rt-circuit
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby hankaye » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:33 am

MtnDon, Howdy;

Interesting articles, but what is the smoke/gas that is released when the show starts?
Is it toxic?

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Re: buying Lithium batteries price question

Postby Prem » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:54 am

My goal...

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