Chasing A GFCI Problem

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Chasing A GFCI Problem

Postby halfdome, Danny » Fri May 08, 2015 7:35 pm

This week we were camping in Oregon with other teardroppers and I hooked up our teardrop to the 20 amp duplex campground GFCI receptacle.
It kept on snapping our GFCI and The campground one.
I tried the 30 amp RV one with my adapter and the same results.
The maintenance man thought the problem was that we had a 15 amp vs their 20 amp GFCI.
I wasn't buying into his theory since we have hooked up the same way in other campgrounds including Oregon campgrounds without any problems.
Anyway, since it has 12-2 romex with ground and a 20 amp breaker box I was planning on changing everything out to 20 amps.

I replaced the 15 amp GFCI with a 20 amp one and it would snap after I would plug in the second appliance, Battery Tender then the TV.
It still acted the same way with replacing the next 3 duplex outlets to 20 amp ones.
After replacing the head board duplex outlet it worked as it should.

My theory is, that with the moisture we give off, while sleeping at night, it must have corroded something in the head board duplex outlet.

Maybe my experience will save someone a lot of time in the future. ;)
:D Danny
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Re: Chasing A GFCI Problem

Postby George Taylor » Fri May 08, 2015 8:24 pm

I do not think that moisture would have caused that problem. If, and this would be a extreme case, there was corrosion that caused it, it would have been so severe you would have seen it. The most likely cause to the tripping was one of the wires was just close enough that when a load was placed on the wire it "moved" just enough to make contact. It does sound out there, but have seen that many times in my work. They do make outlets that are rated for outdoor use. They are marked "WR". You can always wrap some electrical tape around them to protect the wires from touching. I am an electrician. The 15 amp outlets that you mentioned are rated for a 20 amp feed through, but will only allow you to plug in the 15 amp only rated cords.
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Re: Chasing A GFCI Problem

Postby H.A. » Fri May 08, 2015 8:42 pm

Me too. Unless the thing were visibly or felt dampness inside the box or on the receptacle, I would think problem something else. Anyway, sometimes problems do just go away without having found a legitimate reason.

One could seal up the box by caulking its internal gaps & gasket its cover. (Actually done that sealing up of alot of boxes for weatherization of cheaply built houses) Could even go as far as a weather proof flapped cover. Or just dont breathe whilst inside...
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Re: Chasing A GFCI Problem

Postby halfdome, Danny » Fri May 08, 2015 9:03 pm

It's just my theory, in my experience, and I'll stick with it (no disrespect intended) since that last box was at the end of the run and every wire was tight and not touching.
I'm not an electrician but have done enough wiring over the years including my shop that passed inspection with flying colors.
I watched a couple you tube videos on GFCI's and they mentioned corrosion problems from moisture.
I tossed all the old duplex plugs and didn't take a look at them.
I did suspect the Battery Tender and that was my next step if things didn't change by replacing the outlets.
The good thing is that I was able to rectify the problem and life goes on.
:D Danny
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Re: Chasing A GFCI Problem

Postby Dale M. » Sat May 09, 2015 8:35 am

I don't think halfdome dannys theory is so far off.... Some of the new "stuff" made in China is terrible.... At museum where I docent (do maintenance), we have several "strip outlets" and devices plugged into them some times fail to work.... Seems that something even plugged into the will corrode where the two different alloys of metal meet, by unplugging and replugging in several times seems to solve issue for time being, we have taken to using dielectric grease on plugs to stop the issues....

Even had a LED flashlight that was producing a dim glow even when switch off... Seems a cell was leaking and creating a corrosion path that was enough to conduct enough voltage/current to cause LED glow (I know sounds strange) but after replaceing batteries and cleaning corrosion it was back to normal....

Think main issue we are getting products that are cheaply made and the manufacturers are cutting corners to make more money and we all suffer....

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Re: Chasing A GFCI Problem

Postby jmsokol » Mon May 25, 2015 4:49 pm

halfdome, Danny wrote:.
The maintenance man thought the problem was that we had a 15 amp vs their 20 amp GFCI. I wasn't buying into his theory since we have hooked up the same way in other campgrounds including Oregon campgrounds without any problems. Anyway, since it has 12-2 romex with ground and a 20 amp breaker box I was planning oAlson changing everything out to 20 amps.

I'm Mike Sokol from the No~Shock~Zone. My articles have been linked to on some other threads on this forum, so I thought I would jump in here about GFCI theory. First of all, if you're talking about a GFCI outlet with the built-in TRIP and RESET buttons, then the total amperage draw has nothing to do with this. In fact, that type of outlet needs to be fed by its own circuit breaker, typically rated for 20-amp even thought the GFCI outlet may not have the sideways T-shaped contact of a 20-amp version. But any of the 15-amp receptacles can safely carry 20-amps of current as long as the wiring and breaker feeding them are rated for 20 amperes. See my article on GFCI theory at http://www.noshockzone.org/rv-electrical-safety-part-viii-gfci/

Be aware that GFCI's are tripped by any more than 6 mA (milli-amps) imbalance of incoming and outgoing current. So anything that leaks a little current to the frame ground of the RV is suspect. One thing that's often the culprit is the basic surge protector power strip. The MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor) inside will often leak 1 to 3 mA (milli-amperes) of current between the hot and ground wires. And those leakage currents are additive, so while a single surge strip may not cause a GFCI to trip, two surge strips plugged into your RV can often add up to more than the 6 mA tripping point. Also, any kind of moisture in a junction box can cause this type of leakage as well. I've seen a number of RVs with a torn gasket on a junction box that allowed water to accumulate in the bottom, and that was enough to cause the GFCI to trip.

I will note that there are indeed a lot of failed GFCI's out there, but they typically break by not tripping at all or not resetting. There's not a lot of GFCI failures where they trip at too low of a level. I'm sure that's possible, but I've never seen it in the field personally.

One more thing... I'm pitching the idea of the RVIA supporting me presenting some on-site seminars about electrical safety for various camping groups. So let me know if TNTTT has any sort of jamboree or other type of community meeting on the east coast you might want me to teach at. For more info on all the topics I cover in my seminars see http://www.NoShockZone.org

Let's play safe out there....
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