PD4045 110 vs battery?

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PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby Diemjoe » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:54 pm

I think I have wired something up wrong. My 110 circuits work when I am connected to shore power. But when I unplug it and go off the fully charged battery, They go dead.
I have the main circuit breaker connected to the black shore power, white and green going to their respective terminals on the PD4045. The second circuit breaker black goes to the 120 bus on the right side of the 4045. a third CB powers a galley GFCI which in turn runs to a cabin USB and 120 outlet and a couple lights. That's all I am running on 120. The 12v side works fine.

Without shore power, I am getting multimeter readings on the black and whites leading from the 12v fuse panel to the converter but on the power coming out of the converter, to the bus strip, no 120.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Don
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PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby Padilen » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:39 pm

Not sure I'm reading your post correctly but are you trying to use 12DC battery to power 120 AC? If so it won't work you need an inverter to do that. If you mean that your not getting 12 vdc when disconnect from shore(120 AC) check your connections and battery ground.
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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby H.A. » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:13 pm

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Last edited by H.A. on Sat May 14, 2016 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby Diemjoe » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:45 pm

Thanks for the clarification. I am hoping to not spend much time on shore power so I guess I am going to have to add a 12v USB charger to the cabin and cut off the 120 converter off of the LCD lights. Oh well. Thanks for the quick response.

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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby Shadow Catcher » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:50 pm

To get 120AC from your battery you are going to need to add an inverter, the PD is a converter (you are not the only one to misunderstand). A fair look at the choices http://www.doityourselfrv.com/rv-inverter-how-to-best-option
I chose a Morningstar Puresine wave 300W inverter because it is very efficient, and no moving parts.
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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby Diemjoe » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:14 pm

Looking the inverters up, I came on another question. In my case I have only wired the 110 outlets for Shore power connection. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for connecting the inverter so that I can switch between shore and inverter power source?

Thanks.

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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby lfhoward » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:49 pm

There is a device called an automatic transfer switch that senses when your inverter is on and changes the power over. It doesn't allow 120vac from more than one source at a time. These devices are common to use with permanent household generators, but there are some smaller ones sold at rv supply websites, which is where I got mine.
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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby troubleScottie » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:10 pm

Just remember, you are using a lot more power with an inverter - 120 V system.

It is easier/more efficient to use DC (12V) for USB connections (5V) then inverting to 120V and using the AC transformer to step the voltage back down to 5 V. Low voltage LED lights are easier to wire than again converting 120VAC back to 12VDC

A 1 amp device at 12V is only using drawing 1 amp-hour. A 1 amp 120 V device is drawing at least 10 times that, simple math plus the inverter's inefficiencies. Many of your 120 V devices are really power hungry eg hair dryer at about 15A.

Of course this all depends on what you are doing with the devices. Or how you are recharging your batteries.
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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby Diemjoe » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:22 pm

Thanks Mike,
I didn't know about the conversion inefficiency but it does make sense. I a going pretty light on the power usage. Just charging tele, computer and blue tooth speaker. So it will be a light draw. At the same time, your right, I just need to snip a wire on the LCDs and run another cable. Time for bed to sleep on it.

Don
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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby Socal Tom » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:29 am

Diemjoe wrote:Thanks Mike,
I did know about the conversion inefficiency but it does make sense. I a going pretty light on the power usage. Just charging tele, computer and blue tooth speaker. So it will be a light draw. At the same time, your right, I just need to snip a wire on the LCDs and run another cable. Time for bed to sleep on it.

Don

Have a cheap 200w invertor mounted in the cabin near the TV. It easily provides power for the TV when boon docking. It plugs into a cigarette lighter and it was a lot cheaper than a transfer switch, and big invertor. Big inverters are inefficient at low power draw. So don't do overkill here.
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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby Diemjoe » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:30 am

Thanks Everyone. It's settled. I'll rewire tonight.

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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby Shadow Catcher » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:57 am

I used a 30A DPDT switch that bypasses the PD converter and routs 120 power from the inverter to the circuit breakers in the PD.
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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby capnTelescope » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:01 pm

Diemjoe wrote:Does anyone have a wiring diagram for connecting the inverter so that I can switch between shore and inverter power source?

Here you go:
Image

This setup assumes shore power as the default, and transfers by relay to the inverter when it switches on. Basically, the inverter is connected to the 115VAC relay coil so the relay energizes when the inverter is turned on. The inverter power is also connected to the normally open contacts. Shore power goes to the normally closed contacts, and the load (AC outlet) is connected to the switching contacts of the relay.

You can use a "DPDT" switch in place of the relay.

Limit the loads connected to the outlet to no more watts that the inverter can handle. That's the only thing that doesn't take care of itself. Don't supersize the inverter beyond the rating of the relay contacts.

Since I drew this, I've added a Truckfridge that has it's own switchover from DC to AC. Refrigerating While Towing!

lfhoward wrote:There is a device called an automatic transfer switch...

Have you got a linky to one that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? I did a quick google, and they seem to start at $300.

Clear as mud?
:beer:
I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby lfhoward » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:15 pm

AdventureRV.net has several options that range in price and amperage. I got a 30 amp model so it wasn't crazy expensive.

http://www.adventurerv.net/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Transfer+switch

I'm running a 1000 watt inverter with a remote on/off switch in the camper, so I like the convenience of an automatic transfer switch rather than a manual one.
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Re: PD4045 110 vs battery?

Postby Diemjoe » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:19 pm

Thanks Brad,
You diagram adds some additional info that I was looking for too. IE charging the TD battery from the TV.

I have decided that for the first go of it, I am going to run the whole Thing DC when I don't have Shore power. Mostly because the cost of the inverter compared to my need for 120 and overall low inverter efficiency. I do have a car lighter inverter if the need absolutely arises.

I see you are in Round Rock. I have a rental house over in Summerlyn/Leander. I stopped by Round Rock on my last visit down there. I liked the little town square.

And where did you get the US State map that you have marking your travels?

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