Hot skin!! Please help!

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Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby Steve D » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:23 pm

Our TD has a hot skin.

I get a light tingle on my wrist when I touch the fender. That light tingle changes dramatically when I put my barefoot in a puddle of water and touch the fender.....

My frame and skin is NOT bonded to the PD4045

What I have found.
1) My power supply cord didn't have a ground prong. After I plugged it into a proper cord the hot skin went away. (I don't think that I should have a hot skin so I plugged the none grounded cord back in for trouble shooting.)
2) I pulled all 12V fuses and checked for fender voltage.....still there.
3) turned off the breaker that feeds the single GFCI outlet....still there
4) turned off the breaker that turns on the PD4045 ....still there
5) turned off the 30A main....no shock
6)I disconnected my shore power inlet and temporarily rewired it using a different cord and plugin.....still there
7)checked my 120v wiring to see if i screwed through it... cant find a single spot. All of the 120V wires are ran through wood and none of it is near the siding or frame.

How on earth can I have a hot skin? I don't understand how I am getting that much of a jolt? Is it normal to have a hot skin when your ground is not working?

The PD 4045 came with sketchy installation instructions. I found a diagram here that looked right and made sense.


Thanks for your help!
Steve
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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby mustangcats » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:52 pm

Check out this website http://www.noshockzone.org/15/ It has some great information about rv hot skins and how to find the causes.
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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby GuitarPhotog » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:59 pm

First check that the outlet you are plugged into is wired properly. Use one of those 3-light testers to make sure I have not got something crossed up stream of the trailer.

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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby H.A. » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:00 pm

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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby Steve D » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:31 am

Is it possible to get a hot skin from the 12v side? My multi meter says 49ishV. I'll pick up some more trouble shooting tools tonight after work. ( New multi meter is on the list). What is troubling is that none of my 120v circuits are near the frame or skin. Thanks Steve.
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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby Dale M. » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:11 am

Generally most people are not sensitive to 12V DC.. IT such a low voltage the body is almost a insulator instead of conductor at the voltage... I suggest you get simple volt ohm meter and start a hunt for the cause...

Your initial diagnostics seem to indicate the may be a problem on initial inlet side before power supplies and fuse panels,

5) turned off the 30A main....no shock


Where is 30A breaker located... Is it before PD 4045 and any other 12V DC fuses... IF its in the PD4045 it is either defective unit or not properly wired...

And shame on you for using 2 wire cord.... Three wire cord with SAFETY GROUND is there to protect you from exactly this sort of thing ... And always test any receptical with 3 light tester before plugging in.. There is no guarantee the receptical you plug into is wired correctly if they are in RV park or where ever...

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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby noseoil » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:20 am

As was already mentioned, I would check the power source first, to see if your supply is actually clean. The outlet you plug into should be wired so there is no "leakage current" from the neutral or the ground, just the hot side. Check with the multi-meter at the ground pin & then the neutral, is there any voltage measured at either one? Measure voltage between a good ground (rebar or stake hammered into the mud next to the panel or something) where you know there can't be any voltage & the outlet itself.

Your trailer should have a connection from the frame & skin to ground as well (the ground pin on the supply side of things), but 49 volts is off the charts for leakage. Find it & fix it. Would really like to know where it's coming from!
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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby Steve D » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:22 pm

Thanks to all for the suggestions!!!

From the suggestions i have discovered that my ground in the shop is poor. All outlets!. I bought a new ground rod and drove it in. The ground is better, just not as good as I want it.

So, the troubleshooting began.
Double checked (triple checked and did it again just to be sure!!) the 120V side and I cannot find ANY wire that is in contact with the chassis.
Next was the 12V side by pulling the fuses. Again the voltage is still there. (by the way its about 50V.)
Now I needed to have a little thinking fluid...

I decided to check all the wires for each circuit for resistance to the fender. I found two!! circuits 6 and 8.
These two are for the outside lights and reading lights. (right and left side)
When I unplugged the hot and ground from these two circuits the fender voltage dropped to 9.
When I removed the outside lights from the side of the camper and inspected them I see that the backing plate is part of one of the contacts for the light. I screwed through the backing plate into the siding.
Leaving the outside lights dangling I hooked the circuits back up and the voltage stayed at 9.

I don't know what all of this means yet.....but I do know its a step in the right direction!!
Thanks
Steve
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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby Andrew Herrick » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:02 am

Looking forward to see where this goes. I've never heard of this problem with a teardrop. I'm interested to find out the answer!
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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby Dale M. » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:58 am

By 9, do you mean 9 Volts AC?... All your internal AC wiring should be 3 wire (hot (black) - neutral (white) - safety ground( green)) and even out side fixtures should have green safety ground connected to fixture body as it is a possible source short circuit path to skin...

I commend you for identifying shop has poor grounding and upgrading it for your own safety... Also you may want to chase the shop ground issue to master breaker/meter panel as the neutral and safety ground should be bonded together there and connected to proper driven ground rod.... You may have issues in rest of residence electrical system...Of course this is depended on year home may have been built and electrical codes applied at that time...

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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby Steve D » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:56 pm

Yes, 9v AC. I don't know why yet but when I touch the siding with a DC ground the voltage goes up to 50? This is starting to stump me. The 120 side is wired with 3 wire 12/2 with a ground. For clarification, I am doing all this trouble shooting with an ungrounded extension cord. If I plug into a grounded one the voltage goes away. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think I should rely on a ground from a campground.

Dale, the house is good. The shop gets its power from it but the ground is a rod. I plan on getting the shop its own service soon.
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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby Steve D » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:45 pm

I need to revise my method of measuring the voltage coming off the skin. Something is not adding up.
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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby S. Heisley » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:17 pm

I'm no expert; but, I would definitely NOT use an un-grounded extension cord. Use a three-prong, not a two-prong.
Also, we had an electrical engineer who used to log-in onto this forum (Engineerguy) who advised us to take one (or both) of our hitch's safety chains and let it drop to the ground before you hook up to use electricity when camping, thereby giving yourself a make-shift, but real, ground.

I hope the above helps.
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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby H.A. » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:24 pm

[quoore.
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Re: Hot skin!! Please help!

Postby Steve D » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:26 pm

I'm beginning to think that this is just how it's supposed to be. I have all 12v circuits disconnected. I have all 120v disconnected. I have the battery disconnected.
The only things that are still hooked up are the 30a main and the 15a breaker that powers the pd4045. The voltage is still there. If I turn off the 15a that powers up the pd4045 the voltage goes away. I'll post pics of my voltage measuring technique.
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