Advice on electrical

[davidsleg]

Long story short, I'm still new to this but about a year ago, on impulse I bought an old used camper in the hopes of restoring it...turns out it was too badly damaged to restore so I was going to do a tear down and rebuild...turns out the only thing worth a dang was the window unit. Even the trailer was in a lot worse shape than expected. Again, it was impulse, excitement, and lack of knowledge that forked out the cash. Now I am taking a more systematic approach with planning and budgeting my build, even breaking it up into phases and breaking down an estimated budget for each phase. I've reached phase four of my plan which brings in electrical. I'll obviously bring in a professional to install but I'm hoping to get a general materials list for what I want to run/power to at least budget that part of it. My plan is to have the ability to hook into shore power, have a vent fan, 2 interior lights, 2 porch lights, 2 receptacles in the cab, 1 or 2 receptacles in the galley, and possibly a dual usb charge port in the cab. I've already priced and budgeted these items, I am hoping some of you could help me break down a parts/materials list it would take to run them efficiently ie, type of battery, converter, size of wire, etc. I'll do the cost/budget research myself but I wouldn't turn down any suggestions on places to procure such items. Thank you all in advance, I've already learned so much from this forum.

David

[Pinstriper]

When you say “receptacles” do you actually mean AC outlets ? Or are you thinking 12v sockets (lighter style) for 12v appliances ?

If AC, how many circuits do you envision, and what loads are you thinking you will need ?

For instance, an air conditioner or microwave would typically get its own 15amp circuit, each. You’d be talking about a full blown PDC setup here.

OTOH in my teardrop, I have a single circuit with two outlets. One is dedicated to the battery tender, and the other would run my only AC loads, keeping it all under 15amps. Look up “super simple electrical” on this forum.


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[davidsleg]

Thanks Pin, I was meaning AC outlets. I don't plan on having an air conditioner or a microwave. In the cab I would use for a laptop, possibly a small tv, and that of the like. In the galley nothing more than a 1 or 2 burner cooktop and maybe a coffee maker. I plan on mainly going places that have shore power but I still wanted at least have some lights that ran on dc in case we go somewhere without it. After some research I liked the idea of charging the battery and still using dc powered items while hooked into shore power (if I'm understanding it correctly lol) with a converter. I seen the simple set up thread and I have considered going that route and possibly upgrade later down the road.

[Pinstriper]

Check the draw on those coffee makers and cooktops/hot plates. You could be needing independent 15amp circuits and a 30amp shore power and full on pdc.

Since I cook on a 2 burner camp stove, I don’t really have any electric appliances with. Ok, I have a 700w heater, which I know I can’t run on my 800w generator as the startup surge goes way beyond the 1000w mark. I could put that back in the td for when I have shore power.


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[DoctahDeane]

I bought a teardrop that was mostly finished but none of the electrical was wired up. Since I bought it, I've installed a deep cycle battery and charger, with an external port to shore power. I've installed a Blue Seas fuse box and I have all the devices that were already installed (hatch light, interior lights, roof fan) wired to the fuse box and all are working fine. I plan to run new wire this weekend for galley gauges for a simple 12v socket, a battery gauge and a USB charger - two wires each, back to fuse box. I expect no problems with this.

Inside the cabin and inside the galley are two standard 110v outlets like you have on the wall of your house. These are not working currently. There is a sheathed three wire cable coming into the under trailer box where I have the battery and charger as well as fuse box (green, black and white wires). I am pretty sure this cable is for the outlets, as it's about the only thing it could be for. If it isn't I can rewire but my question is - what is the safest, most appropriate way to provide power to these outlets with my existing setup? I would like to be able to charge a laptop and there's a possibility I might want to put a small TV screen inside the cabin.

Can I wire these outlets to the fusebox? Is it just a matter of using a larger fuse, say 30A? Or, is there some missing piece of gear I need to purchase?

I'd appreciate any advice to get the outlets working, safely. Thanks folks!

[Pinstriper]

I bought a teardrop that was mostly finished but none of the electrical was wired up. Since I bought it, I've installed a deep cycle battery and charger, with an external port to shore power. I've installed a Blue Seas fuse box and I have all the devices that were already installed (hatch light, interior lights, roof fan) wired to the fuse box and all are working fine. I plan to run new wire this weekend for galley gauges for a simple 12v socket, a battery gauge and a USB charger - two wires each, back to fuse box. I expect no problems with this.

Inside the cabin and inside the galley are two standard 110v outlets like you have on the wall of your house. These are not working currently. There is a sheathed three wire cable coming into the under trailer box where I have the battery and charger as well as fuse box (green, black and white wires). I am pretty sure this cable is for the outlets, as it's about the only thing it could be for. If it isn't I can rewire but my question is - what is the safest, most appropriate way to provide power to these outlets with my existing setup? I would like to be able to charge a laptop and there's a possibility I might want to put a small TV screen inside the cabin.

Can I wire these outlets to the fusebox? Is it just a matter of using a larger fuse, say 30A? Or, is there some missing piece of gear I need to purchase?

I'd appreciate any advice to get the outlets working, safely. Thanks folks!

Unless something is misstated, no. You are talking about a fuse block that is 12v dc, but outlets that are 110v ac. Completely incompatible.

When you say “port for shore power” do you mean just a hole with a cover through which the plug and cord for you battery charger runs ?

If so, you could do like mine. What runs out to shore power is just an extension cord that is wired into the back of a 110c ac box, into which the battery charger is plugged. Three wire also comes out of that box and feeds one other 110v outlet. This sounds like what was originally planned, and elsewhere on this forum is known as the “super simple” power system. The 12v system connects off the battery.

Grounding and surge protection as well as gfci are handled, if at all, at the pedestal or wherever the 110 shore power comes from, including a generator.

If instead by “charger” you mean an actual PDC with 12v as well as 110v outputs, and fuses/circuit breakers feeding those circuits, you would be putting your 110 3-wires to one of the ac circuits on the PDC.

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[DoctahDeane]

[quote=Pinstriper]Unless something is misstated, no. You are talking about a fuse block that is 12v dc, but outlets that are 110v ac. Completely incompatible.

When you say “port for shore power” do you mean just a hole with a cover through which the plug and cord for you battery charger runs ?

If so, you could do like mine. What runs out to shore power is just an extension cord that is wired into the back of a 110c ac box, into which the battery charger is plugged. Three wire also comes out of that box and feeds one other 110v outlet. This sounds like what was originally planned, and elsewhere on this forum is known as the “super simple” power system. The 12v system connects off the battery.

Grounding and surge protection as well as gfci are handled, if at all, at the pedestal or wherever the 110 shore power comes from, including a generator.

If instead by “charger” you mean an actual PDC with 12v as well as 110v outputs, and fuses/circuit breakers feeding those circuits, you would be putting your 110 3-wires to one of the ac circuits on the PDC.

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Thanks a lot, yes that is exactly what I meant. I know I'm exposing my ignorance so thanks for being kind in your answer. Since I did not put the whole thing together there has been some guesswork involved. Plus, I was really hoping that maybe I could use the 110v outlets WITHOUT being connected to shore power. I don't care about a TV but it would have been cool to plug in my guitar amp in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, I understand and now I can finish off things correctly. Excited to do that and grateful for the help I have received from this community.

[Pinstriper]

You CAN get 110v ac, using an inverter off the battery.

Depending in the size of the battery, the power draw of the load you want to put on it, and how long you want it to last you would have to buy the right size battery and also an inverter capable of supplying the power required.

That is a gross oversimplification of course because batteries can be damaged by being drawn down below 50% of their rated capacity, and your load may draw x watts continuous but several times at startup depending on the device.

That’s why my 1000w generator won’t drive my 700w heater because it draws like 1200w surge to start.


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[DoctahDeane]

You CAN get 110v ac, using an inverter off the battery.

Depending in the size of the battery, the power draw of the load you want to put on it, and how long you want it to last you would have to buy the right size battery and also an inverter capable of supplying the power required.

That is a gross oversimplification of course because batteries can be damaged by being drawn down below 50% of their rated capacity, and your load may draw x watts continuous but several times at startup depending on the device.

That’s why my 1000w generator won’t drive my 700w heater because it draws like 1200w surge to start.


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Thanks for this too. Yes, I can see that the addition of these outlets in the trailer is probably a feature I would have left out. Probably the guy building it had in mind using a blender in the galley or a TV in the cabin, always attached to shore power. I really don't know. For me, if I see something already in place, I want to try and make it work. I think a more rewarding approach is going to be to add a flexible solar panel. But mostly, now is the time to finish all the little things. Anyway, thanks again.

[troubleScottie]

Just to note. May devices are available in DC versions eg TV, radio, water pumps, propane heater, water heater, frig/freezer, LED, USB charging ports, sensors.

Big power items require AC eg 12VDC battery charger, air conditioner, most space heaters, microwaves, blenders.

If your AC needs are small, the idea of using basically an extension cord is fine. As the amount of power used goes up, you will need AC circuit breakers which may mean a power distribution center. Also remember the GFCI is a real good idea. Basically you are using AC while standing in a puddle.

Depending on the power tower/post from the camp ground is not sufficient for grounding or fault protection. Some are really great. Others are quite questionable. Maintenance quality varies. Time affects buried cables. Our house has 30 old buried lines. The power company has been out here a couple of times to make them better. I doubt the camp grounds are any better.

[DoctahDeane]

Just to note. May devices are available in DC versions eg TV, radio, water pumps, propane heater, water heater, frig/freezer, LED, USB charging ports, sensors.

I'm learning a lot, thanks to folks like you, thank you. I think it'll be fine - and perhaps better - to start with 12v DC devices only. If I can get things ship shape within the next two weeks or so, then can focus on the little extras that'll make camping comfortable (tarps, chair, nice Bluetooth speaker, cooler). Thanks for taking the time to weigh in!

[DoctahDeane]

Just to note. May devices are available in DC versions eg TV, radio, water pumps, propane heater, water heater, frig/freezer, LED, USB charging ports, sensors.

I'm learning a lot, thanks to folks like you, thank you. I think it'll be fine - and perhaps better - to start with 12v DC devices only. If I can get things ship shape within the next two weeks or so, then can focus on the little extras that'll make camping comfortable (tarps, chair, nice Bluetooth speaker, cooler). Thanks for taking the time to weigh in!

[Pinstriper]

You would be surprised how little you need beyond 12v. I travel with 18v cordless Ryobi fan, two lanterns that also have usb charging ports, and half a dozen of their batteries. I can go probably a week without worrying about recharge, which I have their 12v charger for to draw off my house battery, which I only have two led house lights connected and take basically nothing.

I have found sound power pedestals and unsound. The worst one make nice arcing pops while the breaker was on ! So....yeah.


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