120V submersible pump experiment. Is it safe???

[Endo]

Well I had an idea so I thought I would give it a try.
I saw a 120V submersible fountain pump on sale at HF.
So I "invested" the $4.99 into it for a little experiment.
I have the JC Whitney hand pump faucet.
It works OK but it is a little hard to rinse your hands or dishes
and pump it at the same time.

So as an experiment I hooked up the fountain pump to the water line. I drop the pump into my water jug.
The pump is plugged into a switched outlet which is protected by a 15amp breaker and is also GFCI protected.

It produces a slow steady flow of water, no splash at all.

I bought the smallest pump they had. I thought it would fit into my 5 gallon water jug but it is too big.
So I bought a 2.5 gallon "disposible" jug from Krogers (which comes full of spring water) and cut a flap in the top.
Anyone looking for a cheap under the counter water jug?? This is a great option!

The nice thing about this is the hand pump faucet still works with the submersible pump attached.
So with or without power you still have a working faucet.

So my question is..... is this safe???? Will the GFCI protect you in the event of a short??

Keep in mind I did this as an experiment to see if it would work.
It works great but I don't want to use it if it is not safe!

The pump is 120V/0.09amps/60 Hz.

I know we all use electrical appliances every day that are in close contact to water
(dishwasher, washing machine, garbage disposal, fish tank filters/heaters, sump pump, hot tub.....) but it still is
kind of scary to drop this little pump directly into water!!

Feedback is welcome!! but please don't "slam me" for trying this experiment.

[Countycop2152]

I'm no water or electrical expert (although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) If I read your post correctly its a submersible fountain pump (made to go in the water) I would say your fine. My aquarium has a similar pump and the fish and frog are all doing fine.

Ben

[bdosborn]

Endo,

Boy, thats a tough call. Yes, its protected by GFCI but I've read that in the field, GFCI has about a 50% failure rate when tested in existing buildings (line transients take them out). I bet the plug on the pump only has 2 prongs so there's probably no ground. The motor is potted so the chances of it ever energizing the water is probably pretty slim. But, if it ever did, you'd be the only path to ground. I don't think I'd use it in my trailer. Why not look for a DC pump with about the same GPM and use that instead? Then you never have to worry if you sneak a drink out of the faucet when your wife's not looking (except that maybe she is looking).
Bruce

P.S. I really like your tongue setup. That's the best idea I've seen in awhile, I might have to steal it.

[Endo]

Endo,

Boy, thats a tough call. Yes, its protected by GFCI but I've read that in the field, GFCI has about a 50% failure rate when tested in existing buildings (line transients take them out). I bet the plug on the pump only has 2 prongs so there's probably no ground. The motor is potted so the chances of it ever energizing the water is probably pretty slim. But, if it ever did, you'd be the only path to ground. I don't think I'd use it in my trailer. Why not look for a DC pump with about the same GPM and use that instead? Then you never have to worry if you sneak a drink out of the faucet when your wife's not looking (except that maybe she is looking).
Bruce

P.S. I really like your tongue setup. That's the best idea I've seen in awhile, I might have to steal it.

Thanks for the reply (and the compliment on the tongue setup)!!

The pump is grounded.

I just thought I should at least post this idea and see what feedback I would get.

[Krob]

There is a new NFPA and UL standard for GFCIs that goes into effect this month (If I remember correctly). All new GFCIs manufactured must have a End of Life Provision: when a GFCI receptacle can no longer provide ground fault protection it will either render itself incapable of delivering power, or indicate by visual or audible means that the device must be replaced. This is supposedly performed by a fail safe curcuit. Of course the GFCI already in stock can be sold by the distributers, but I would request the new GFCI for any new construction or replacement.

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Endo

I am assuming that this line is not part of a trick question "Will the GFCI protect you in the event of a short?"

Because a direct short will not trip a GFCI (you just become a resistive load) the only way a GFCI will work then is if some current leaks out of your toes to earth.

Points to note

Because it includes earth and a GFCI under all normal circumstances you will be safe, but you must bond the tap base and metal sink to earth.

If you use a genny or invertor to power post here because there are several important details you need to look into if you do intend to.

Is it rated as safe for fish ponds? I ask because fish are more sensitive to Plastics and resins, ie if its safe for fish its usually good for us too.

I cannot see it being dangerous, assuming good Earth Bonding, Good GFCI and the fact that the Pump is earthed too.

[bopper62]

Hi Endo
It looks ok to me, I only worked in the manhine Ind most of my life and I am retured now Oh Oh retired that is and all the machines I worked on used or had the setup to use water as coolent and most of the coolent pump that we used were of the type you hive there and I'm still hear to talk about it. Oh and I burned up more then one of those little pumps from to rich a mix of coolent.
Bopper62

[Endo]

Thanks George.

The sink and faucet are not grounded yet but if I decide to use this setup I will ground them.

If you use a genny or invertor to power post here because there are several important details you need to look into if you do intend to.

George I'm not sure what this sentence means?? Could you please explain.

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Endo

If you are powered by mains hook up (shore power, campground power post or whatever you call it) then all should go well.

However if you intend using an inverter to power then post here first there are some important differences on how these work with relation to earth and GFCI's

Same with Generator's they can be earthed differently.

If campground only dont worry

[Gage]

Just a question. Why would you want to do 110v as a main need? I set every thing up around 12v so as to be able to camp anywhere and not worry about shore power being provided. So I think it would be easier to just get a 12v pump that you could use any where you camp? Oh, and my tear is also wired for 110. So when shore power is there, I can use it and save a little battery.

Have a good day.

[Krob]

George, you are correct, you do become a resistive for a very short duration, about 3 milliamps for approximately 1/30 of a second. This is at the threshhold of sensing a shock well below any dangerous shock. Now, that is only if the darn thing is operating as advertised.

Kevin

[Guy]

Dear Gage,

One of the reasons is , sometimes the savings of a couple of dollars, makes a difference. Endo's pump cost $4.99. A comparable 12v pump may cost more. However, the total cost of rigging the safety of the 120 volt pump will probably make it cost more than the 12 v pumps folk have been able to find.

[stjohn]

If this is a hi jack I,m sorry but its along the same line(water pressure)
My plans are kind of like jacks Using a 8in. piece of pipe capped on both ends laid flat in the galley cabinet, one two in nipple glued inthe top w/vavle styem mounted in the cap And a 3/4 in nipple on the bottum w/boiler vavle in it run through the floor when at a park w/water hook a washer machine hose to the bottum drain pressured water through the tank when dry camping 20 or 3o pounds of air pressure on the tank full of water I will have to carry a bicycle pump when dry camping but pretty simple setup I think.no pump needed

Mike

[Gage]

Dear Gage,
One of the reasons is , sometimes the savings of a couple of dollars, makes a difference. Endo's pump cost $4.99. A comparable 12v pump may cost more. However, the total cost of rigging the safety of the 120 volt pump will probably make it cost more than the 12 v pumps folk have been able to find.

And I just love reading later after someone has used thier low cost teardrop a couple of times. Saying I wonder why I didn't do it this or that way? Guess I'll just build another one. Now you tell me Mr. Guy, just how much money did they really save because they didn't want to save up until they had enough to pay a little extra?

Have a good day.

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Kevin (Krob)

If none of that current leaks out through some part of your body to earth then the GFCI will never cut in and you will die. Hence the reason I go on about ensuring you have a good earth and that all possible conducters are bonded to the earth.


Gage, also everything 115V could be made to work from 12v for boondocking anyway with a small inverter, add in the savings on buying DC equipment....