120V submersible pump experiment. Is it safe???

[Endo]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I only camp at locations where shore power is available. This is one of the few "requirements" of the wife (that and a shower).

I don't even have a battery. I have a 120v-12v converter to power all the 12v lights.

As far as cost is concerned I think I have about $10.00 in everything (pump, fittings....). I was just trying to find a cheap way to make the hand pump faucet more functional.

I was hoping this idea was a cheap/easy solution to my problem and not a cheap way to kill myself!!

[Miriam C.]

Krob and all,

Of course the GFCI already in stock can be sold by the distributers, but I would request the new GFCI for any new construction or replacement.

Mike said:"Don't hold your breath." He will not sell them to Electritians till he is out of stock and the factory will not ship till they are out of stock.

He does agree that unless you are absolutely sure your faucet and pump are grounded (in the ground, not to the trailer or car) all of George's and other similar post are right on.

Chiming in. Was almost a good idea.

[PaulC]

Gage, I'm with you on this one. Why bother with mains and all of it's quirks. I have never heard of anyone being killed by 12v. My van and Vehicle all operate 12v equipment. The cost is negligible as far as i am concerned. By the way, Mains voltage over here is 240v. That's the reason I keep away from it.
Cheers
Paul

[Gage]

<snip>
By the way, Mains voltage over here is 240v. That's the reason I keep away from it.
Cheers
Paul

You know the thing I noticed long, long ago. Is that every body on the other side of the big blue talk 120 & 240 where as here in the states it's 110 & 220. Although it shouldn't be much different in principle. But I have been told at some time that if you toured over there be sure to check the voltage (ask the desk) before plugging in your shaver. I guess maybe that's why I grew a beard when I was down under.

Have a good day.

How about that G.P. today. A course it was tonight here.

[Elumia]

seems to me I've seen posts on here about a pump and faucet for $25. I belive it was Jc Whitney? Why reinvent the wheel for $20? In the time we've discussed this, you could have had a proven solution (I'm assuming you already have 12v supply) and a happy Missus.

Mark

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Miriam

Are you sure about The Grounding being a stake in the ground, I find that this is the biggest mix up, when an electrician talks ground he is usually just refering to the chassis earth and not actually refering to a ground stake.

Adding a ground stake could actually cause death, unless you know exactly what you are doing.

To do correctly and relatively safely, one would have to do a full mains check and then disconnect mains completely then fix the earth stake then, reconnect the mains.

Hi Gage

They did used to say 240 here even though its often 230 to 250

Now we all say 220 due to EU harmonisation, but reality is that its still 230 to 250 in UK and lower in europe.

All,

I would probably still spring for a 12v Pump, why? although the risk's are small negligable even (for the reasons I have outlined) a 12v Pump is No risk at all.

[PaulC]

How about that G.P. today. A course it was tonight here.

Hi Gage, A bit of a smash and bang affair. Alonso had it down pat with his safety car restarts, did'nt he.
Cheers
Paul

[Gage]

<snip>
Hi Gage
They did used to say 240 here even though its often 230 to 250
Now we all say 220 due to EU harmonisation, but reality is that its still 230 to 250 in UK and lower in europe.
<snip>

So are your Honda type generators adjusted to put out the higher voltage than over here? Or do you have to also use some sort of inverter in conjunction.

Hi Gage, A bit of a smash and bang affair. Alonso had it down pat with his safety car restarts, did'nt he.
Cheers
Paul

I guess M.Schumacher is human after all. And as far as Alonso, a few little squeals and then bary his foot before he even got straight and I think that's what was throwing Raikkonen and the rest of them off. They figured he would straighten out and then hit it.

Have a good day.

[Endo]

seems to me I've seen posts on here about a pump and faucet for $25. I belive it was Jc Whitney? Why reinvent the wheel for $20? In the time we've discussed this, you could have had a proven solution (I'm assuming you already have 12v supply) and a happy Missus.

Mark

The JC Whitney pump is not a submersible pump. So this would require a new water tank and alot of new plumbing.

I know I can find a submersible 12v pump but when I was shopping at Harbor Freight I saw this 120v pump and that is how this experiment started. It took very little time and money to install. I already had everything needed except the pump and a few other pieces.

I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel just trying to see if other "wheel" options are available. I just wanted to experiment and try something new.

Again thanks everyone for your replies. I thought this idea would generate some interesting feedback.

I forgot to mention that I already grounded the sink and faucet (it took about 15 minutes to do it). So I will keep this setup at least for a while to test it further.

[Miriam C.]

George

You said:

Hi Miriam

Are you sure about The Grounding being a stake in the ground, I find that this is the biggest mix up, when an electrician talks ground he is usually just refering to the chassis earth and not actually refering to a ground stake.

What we are saying is to be sure the place you are plugging into is correctly grounded to the ground! Europe may not have a problem with public facilities not being right but we might. I think when you say earth your are saying the same thing we are.

I don't know a single electrician who will tell you to ground 120 to the chassis (frame of a car or trailer). When you add the word earth I am not sure if that changes what I think.

I would not ever ground my camper's 120 to my trailer or car and not be sure my source was right. If you don't have three plugs on your equipment adding an adapter may not help you. Just me. I don't want to recieve the Darwin award.

Disconecting the main, I am not sure is hard. Plug in, plug out. However copper is very expensive and driving a ground rod in 4-6 feet is more trouble than it is worth. Test for a good ground instead.

12v dc will not kill you. Cheap 120 pumps fail all the time.

Just my opinion.
Miriam

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Miriam

I don't know a single electrician who will tell you to ground 120 to the chassis (frame of a car or trailer). When you add the word earth I am not sure if that changes what I think.

All electricians know that all metal objects should be grounded or bonded to earth, its part of your codes and our regulations.

Over here we have few problems in the UK as most campgrounds have been done by proper electricians.

In europe its slightly different they have crossed polarity and many times missing earth.

Hi Gage

Honda gennies throw out an average 220-230 euro standard, of course not forgetting at 50 rather than 60 Htz

[/b]

[Miriam C.]

Dear George,
I believe we are trying to communicate the same information.

What I said:

What we are saying is to be sure the place you are plugging into is correctly grounded to the ground!

When I say to the ground I mean in the earth. The campground should be correctly grounded, to code, however $_tt happens. People mess with stuff and animals chew on stuff. There is also the occasional lazy who does not do his job right, proper electrician or not.

I would not drop what amounts to a sump pump of any quality into a bucket of water and climb in with it no matter who grounds it, even if I drove the whole six foot copper rod into the ground and connected it myself. Just me.

Darwin award = people who, for senseless reasons, fail the survival of the species award.

[PaulC]

[quote="GeorgeTelford"]Hi Miriam

I take it you have no central heating at home then? nor electric hot water heating? these both involve mains electricity and water, I cannot see your point.

quote]

Over here our hot water systems have a shielded element with the mains connected out of the water. With a submersible, don't you drop cable and all into the water? I agree that a short in either configuration will cause problems but I think that there would be less chance of having live water with the residential system.
Paul

[Jiminsav]

man oh man..just get a 12 volt bilge pump that fits in a jug..ya'll just make it too hard on yourselves

[PaulC]

man oh man..just get a 12 volt bilge pump that fits in a jug..ya'll just make it too hard on yourselves

Well Said Jim
Cheers
Paul