110v Exterior "Porch" light.

Anything electric, AC or DC

Postby Chuck Craven » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:17 pm

[
Eagle[/quote]

Well! You need a male plug at the TD that the extinction cords female end will plug into. The black wire is hot, the white wire is the return and the green wire is ground. The black wire always goes to the brass screws on any switches, light fixtures, breaker or outlets. The white wire always goes to the chrome screw on outlets and light fixtures. All the white wires are connected together. That’s from shore power and to all the outlets/light fixtures.
The black hot wire from the shore power goes to the main breaker. Use a GFI breaker for the main, as you do not know if the shore power will have a defect ground until it’s to late and some one gets a shock. From the other side of the main breaker that goes to the sub-breakers, like one for the A/C, one for the sleeping quarters, one for the galley and one for the heater EXC.. As to the size of the breakers you need to look at how much amperage each device uses.
The most important is the grounds. The shore power grounds wire needs to go the GFI breakers source ground side and all the grounds from your loads need to go the load side. Do not ground the trailers frame to the AC powers ground. You need to keep the 12v dc grounds separate from the AC grounds.
If you connect the frame to the AC ground and the shore power has a defective ground and you touch the hitch you may become the current carrying device for the whole campground back to earth ground. That is not lighting up ones life. More like ending life. You can run a hot (black) wire to moor that one outlet or to an outlet and a lamp just watch how much total current the devices will draw if they are all turned on. Also remember the main breaker and max shore power has to mach. If shore power is 15 amps, your main breaker is 20 amps, the shore power should trip long before your main will. But you may take out half the campground too. You may become an unwanted gust fast.
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Postby Arne » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:30 pm

What do people use for a breaker in the t/d.... I haven't reached that point yet, but am thinking of a breaker and ground-fault plugs.


Also, I need some kind of switch panel for fan, light, oscillating fan and a second interior light. So, I need 4 switchs and only have a wall thickness of 1-1/4 inches.... do people use a marine switch panel with small toggle switches? Don't want 4 clunky house switches bulging out of the wall.
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Postby Eagle » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:49 pm

Chuck,

Thank you for your info and patience.

I see how the ac would be grounded, but with the dc would you just run one wire from the pos side of the battery and then the other back to the neg? Or would it be better to ground the battery to the frame and the 12v dc fixtures, etc. to the frame?

Sorry to be so electrical challenged. :oops:

TIA,

Eagle
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Postby Chuck Craven » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:56 pm

Eagle wrote:Chuck,

Thank you for your info and patience.

I see how the ac would be grounded, but with the dc would you just run one wire from the pos side of the battery and then the other back to the neg? Or would it be better to ground the battery to the frame and the 12v dc fixtures, etc. to the frame?

Sorry to be so electrical challenged. :oops:

TIA,

Eagle


Yes with a battery, it is better to ground the NEG. side to the frame with a heavy wire. Then run the load returns back the frame with the thinner wire that can handle the current of the loads. A battery does not have a safety ground, like 120 v AC does, do to the voltages involved and batteries do not have a neutral post.
Even if you use two 6v batteries the series tie from one to the other, has 6 volts to the NEG battery post connected to the frame. That point is not neutral.
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Postby Eric Adams » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:32 pm

Eagle wrote:Mike,

Thanks for the sailboatstuff site. I am worried that heat with lighting. I know incandescent and halogen lights get HOT. Imagine Xenon would as well. Do you know how many LED's it would take to make a good reading lamp? (I know that sounds like a joke in there somewhere).

Lots of goodies on the sailboatstuff site.

Thanks,

Eagle


Check this out:
Cheap too...

http://stores.ebay.com/superlumination_ ... eZL2QQtZkm


He has "utility lights in LED. Mucho light. I think one even has a hi and low setting depending on which hot wire you connect.
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Postby Eagle » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:10 pm

Eric,

Thanks for posting the site :!: :!: :!:

What have you done with LED's?

Thanks again,

Eagle
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Postby Eric Adams » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:07 pm

Eagle wrote:Eric,

Thanks for posting the site :!: :!: :!:

What have you done with LED's?

Thanks again,

Eagle


Mainly looked at them origionally for PC Modding. Anything 12vdc will work. Any 12v PC or Automotive lights should work. :)

I am looking to see how much ampage a 12" white neon tube would draw.


Anyone do anything with EL wire? Its used in cars and PC modding and lights up. Would look cool in a TD. :D
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Postby bdosborn » Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:35 pm

On my trailer I plan to bond the trailer chasis to the AC equipment ground wire for two reasons:

1. Its a code requirement.
2. If for some reason the chasis were energized, I'd rather that the current find ground through the equipment ground instead of me.

Since I'll only have a single 20 amp AC circuit to my trailer, I don't plan on using an AC circuit breaker on the trailer. I'll use GFCI receptacles through out. I'll also be very careful to keep the neutral (white wire) seperate from the ground wire (green wire) so that I don't inadvertantly energize metalic parts like the chasis. I'll carry a receptacle tester so I'll know if a campground circuit is wired correctly.
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Postby Larry Messaros » Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:35 pm

bdosborn wrote:Since I'll only have a single 20 amp AC circuit to my trailer, I don't plan on using an AC circuit breaker on the trailer. I'll use GFCI receptacles through out.
Bruce


Bruce,

In all of the travel trailers I have seen, they utilize a separate breaker for the trailer equipment. A GFCI is not a breaker.

Even if you are only having 1 circuit, you should still be using a breaker. You cannot rely on a campground having the correct breaker. This would apply only if the campground had used the same size amp breakers as your equipment. Anything less would be ok although it might be hard on your electrical components. If the campground used 20,30 or 50 amp circuits, which many of them do, and you had an electrical problem in your trailer, the breaker wouldn't blow. That would be a dangerous situation as the large campground breaker would keep supplying power which could melt and burn wire and equipment if there was a fault in your equipment.

Don't think of the breaker in the campground as the end breaker, but think of your panel in the trailer as a sub-panel off of the main campground breaker. You still need a breaker to match the equipment you have.

Now these are my opinions and from some experience working with electricians. I am not a qualified electrician but I regularly work around 110/220 v panels. Let's here some more views as I think this is extremely important.
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Postby bdosborn » Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:35 pm

Bruce,

In all of the travel trailers I have seen, they utilize a separate breaker for the trailer equipment. A GFCI is not a breaker.


I like the GFCI receptacle instead of a circuit breaker because you can easily test a GFCI receptacle using the buttons on the face. Also, the main thing I'm looking for is personnel protection, which the GFCI receptacle gives. I'm not as concerned with the wire, which the circuit breaker protects. Most fires are started by low magnitude arcing faults (like a line to ground fault) and GFCI circuit breakers don't clear that kind of fault, hence the new requirement for Arc Fault Interrupter circuit breakers in bedrooms. Now if the circuit breaker was an AFI type, that might be a great idea.

Even if you are only having 1 circuit, you should still be using a breaker. You cannot rely on a campground having the correct breaker. This would apply only if the campground had used the same size amp breakers as your equipment. Anything less would be ok although it might be hard on your electrical components. If the campground used 20,30 or 50 amp circuits, which many of them do, and you had an electrical problem in your trailer, the breaker wouldn't blow. That would be a dangerous situation as the large campground breaker would keep supplying power which could melt and burn wire and equipment if there was a fault in your equipment.

The receptacles have different pin configurations for different amperages. If I can plug a 20 amp cord in, I'm going to assume that the campground receptacle is protected with a 20 amp circuit breaker since that is what the NEC has required for years and years. You're right though, that there isn't anyway to know if the campground breaker works. I'm thinking there's probably a lot of Federal Pacific "welders" out there. On the other hand, installing a circuit breaker properly (especially a GFCI or AFI breaker) is probably a little more than the typical Teardrop builder can handle.

Don't think of the breaker in the campground as the end breaker, but think of your panel in the trailer as a sub-panel off of the main campground breaker. You still need a breaker to match the equipment you have.


If I were installing a 50A feeder with branch circuits, I would add circuit breakers without a second thought. A circuit breaker for a single 20 amp circuit that already is protected seems redundant. But, it would only make the system safer by adding a circuit breaker at the expense of complexity. I would think that proper installation and terminations would be as least or more important. I'll review the NEC tomorrow at the office and see if a circuit breaker is required.
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Postby Larry Messaros » Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:22 pm

Bruce,

Thanks for the clarification.

My only concern was not having the proper protection inside the trailer. I realize that the different amperages have different plug configurations, but when I had my 5th wheel, it came with adapters to be able to plug into the different style outlets, which could be potentially dangerous if overloaded.
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Postby bdosborn » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:17 am

Okay,

I did a little code search this morning and the circuit breaker at the trailer is required by the NEC. SO it looks like I will be installing a 20 amp circuit breaker along with the GFCI receptacles as both are a requirement. :roll: I'll take a look at the AFI type but I heard they were fairly expensive. Below is the section of the code covering the breaker.
Bruce

551.40 120-Volt or 120/240-Volt, Nominal, Systems
(C) Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. The internal wiring of a recreational vehicle having only one 15- or 20-ampere branch circuit as permitted in 551.42(A) and (B) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. The ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed at the point where the power supply assembly terminates within the recreational vehicle. Where a separable cord set is not employed, the ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be permitted to be an integral part of the attachment plug of the power supply assembly. The ground-fault circuit interrupter shall provide protection also under the conditions of an open grounded circuit conductor, interchanged circuit conductors, or both.

551.42 Branch Circuits Required.
Each recreational vehicle containing a 120-volt electrical system shall contain one of the following.
(A) One 15-Ampere Circuit. One 15-ampere circuit to supply lights, receptacle outlets, and fixed appliances. Such recreational vehicles shall be equipped with one 15-ampere switch and fuse or one 15-ampere circuit breaker.
(B) One 20-Ampere Circuit. One 20-ampere circuit to supply lights, receptacle outlets, and fixed appliances. Such recreational vehicles shall be equipped with one 20-ampere switch and fuse or one 20-ampere circuit breaker.
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