Welding Help

[sauljordan]

I am thinking of building a frame like the one HomeRoast did in this thread. http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=9115&highlight= I have access to an old Lincoln 225 stick welder, have read everything I can and am ready to try some practice welds tomorrow. The Welds will be on 2x2x1/8 inch angle. Suggestions for settings and electrodes. AC or DC +/- What amperage? 6011 Electrode? 3/32 or 1/8?

I have welded in the past but don't remember much particularly about settings. My plan is to do practice welds, slice them open and post pics for critique.

Thanks,
Saul

[CHUCKLEHEAD69]

have the same welder.i used (i belive) 6013 rods 1/8th inch.settings on a/c on 70 amps .welding on 1/8th inch x 2x3 c channel with gussets already welded in. 70 amps is a little hard to start sometimes but if i went to 90 it would burn through.have some pics in my album not the best looking welds but a 5lb mall could'nt break them apart.
JUDE

[Dean Williams]

I would suggest you weld as hot as you can, without burning through or making excessive spatter. A lot of spatter that sticks very hard to the surface is a sign of running too hot. Burning through will be obvious to you.

You will naturally get spatter, but you should be able to remove the majority of it easily with a chipping hammer. If it's really hard to remove, you're probably burning too hot.

If you're machine will run DC, then a very good structural rod is 7018. It is an all position rod, but takes some skill to run vertical (up). Don't run vertical down as slag inclusions are almost guaranteed. The best in any situation is to weld flat whenever you can. Structurally best and easiest, too.

If you are running on AC, 6011 would be my choice. It's made to run AC, and is also pretty good at burning out weld impurities, (scale, paint, oil, etc.) The DC equivalent to 6011 is 6010. Both these rods require an oscillating technique. 7018 is mainly a drag rod, and oscillation is not needed nor recommended. A slight weave technique is needed for vertical passes, though.

About 90 amps for 1/8 6011, and around 100-120 for 1/8 7018. This will vary by machine and true line voltage, though. You may need a little less. If you have a hard time with electrode sticking, you are probably running too cold, but that often depends on technique, too.

If you have trouble burning through using 1/8 rod, try 3/32 at about 20-30% less amperage.

Hope this helps. Practice....practice.

[Mike Spicer]

Saul

there is something you need to be aware of if you build the frame the way homeroast did. He had to solve this problem after He built it. There was another thread on what to do.

Where are you going to get 1 7/8" square lumber, to fit in the frame?
Don't know what he ended up doing.

The suggestions were to rip them out of larger lumber.
Rip 1 1/2" x 8" down to 1 1/2" x 1 7/8" and use plywood to build up the 1 1/2" size to 1 7/8".

I think I would turn the Angle over and put the flat side of angle up and to the outside, thus doing away with the wood stringers. In my opinon they serve no purpose. You have to screw them to the frame and screw your body to the wood stringers.
Why not just bolt your body to the frame.
Also I think that between the wood stringer and frame is a good place for water to get traped.

Mike

[D. Tillery]

Ditto on the 7018's. They are a very easy stick electrode. With 1/8" material, penetration is not really a concern, undercut is. I'd go with the 3/32nds so you need and can use less heat for thin material. Chip off the slag and tap the end of the electrode on the concrete between welds for easier starts. Hey, we aren't doing code here.

Dean, interesting info about vertical down inclusions. I'd like to know more about that. I'm sure I've made that mistake and never even known it.

[Nitetimes]

Where are you going to get 1 7/8" square lumber, to fit in the frame?

It doesn't need to be 1 7/8" square, just high, rip it and screw it inside, works fine.

...and use plywood to build up the 1 1/2" size to 1 7/8".

No need for the extra work

I think I would turn the Angle over and put the flat side of angle up and to the outside, thus doing away with the wood stringers. In my opinon they serve no purpose. You have to screw them to the frame and screw your body to the wood stringers.
Why not just bolt your body to the frame.

Drawback here is now you have very weak mounting points for your tongue and spring hangers.

Mike

This is the way I did mine and it works very well and it's pretty simple and strong.

Oh yeah, 7018's and 6013's have always been my preferances too.

[Dean Williams]

Dean, interesting info about vertical down inclusions. I'd like to know more about that. I'm sure I've made that mistake and never even known it.

Hi D.

Any of the electrodes that use a heavy slag pool as part of the weld cover are prone to slag inclusions. That includes all of the XX18 and XXX18 series rods, high deposit rod, (you wouldn't use that for trailer welding, though) and the popular 6013. They produce a lot more slag than rods that require oscillating the arc in the weld pool.

When welding flat with these kind of rods, keeping a proper rod angle and the force of the arc itself pushes the slag pool back away from the molten puddle. When welding vertical-up, the slag runs down toward the area below the puddle. Welding vertical-down lets the slag run right into the area you are about to weld, and you can't see it. You end up welding slag into the puddle.

Welding down during a structural welding exam is an automatic fail. That says something about how serious the examiner is about it. Besides, they will see it during the destructive testing on the test piece. Shows up like a sore thumb.

The other mild rods, 6010 and 6011 included, that need to be used with an oscillating weave don't show the problem so much because the puddle gets cleaned a bit during oscillation. You still get some inclusions, and even with them, welding vertical-down is the least desireable method.

Personally,I wouldn't weld vertical-down on anything that needs to tote a load. That doesn't mean that anything done that way will fail. But, it's not a good welding practice.

[D. Tillery]

Dean, thanks for the info. I don't use stick very often so my vertical up is the first to go. I find it harder than overhead. It is a real bear to keep it from looking like a bunch of saggy beer guts. I'm sure there is a technical term for that.

[Dean Williams]

Right D, welding "up" is harder than doing overhead. Overhead is pretty much the same as welding flat, 'cept it's up side down. I think the biggest problem most occasional welders have with overhead passes is a combination of two things: It's hard to get comfortable doing it, and it puts you in a place where all the spatter is falling right down on you. Red hot dingleberries rolling down your shirt collar makes a guy a bit jumpy.

Sags on vertical welds are usually caused by a little too much heat, and not holding your arc in one place long enough to penetrate the base metal enough at a given point. Then the molten pool just wants to kind of "roll out".
You can turn the heat down on your welder a bit when running verticals. Then you can move a little slower going up the pass and tie everything in well without getting so many sags.

Nowadays I have a little hard time with verticals too. Bifocals, ya know....

[D. Tillery]

It's good to have some technical knowledge around here. Most of us, since I've been around here, have experience but not much on the technical side. My father taught me years ago and I weld almost every day, mostly MIG and TIG, with the occasional stick if I have to break out the mobile unit. But I'm lacking on technical knowledge since I've never really hit the books on the subject.

At one time we were going to put together a welding tutorial. Since I've had to put my TD on hold I drop by about every other day and mainly lurk unless on rare occasion I can contribute. I don't know what happened to that tutorial but it was going to be a lot of work. Knowing me, it's finished and here somewhere and I can't find it. Maybe someone will give us an update or make me feel like a fool and tell me where it is.

[asianflava]

Now that the tear is pretty much done, a welder is on my, "gotta have." list. Probably a small MIG, I'd like to learn TIG but it is pretty expensive to get into.

[Dean Williams]

A MIG will do you well, Asianflava. Get a good brand of about 100 amps or more and it will weld most anything you need for a teardrop. Make sure it has a way to reverse polarity so you can use gas and gasless wire.

TIG welding is a skill that takes a while to aquire, and there is little you would need it for around the house. More of a specialist field for aluminum, stainless, and the exotics.

[asianflava]

Took a welding class a long time ago. We mostly did gas but there were 2 TIG machines. We got to try them out but since there were only 2 machines for the whole class, torch time was limited. At least I got to burn a lot of holes thru aluminum.

You could always TIG your trailer frame like Lenny did.

[Dean Williams]

You could always TIG your trailer frame like Lenny did.

You surely could. You can also weld it with oxy-acet. It takes a while for either, and is not really economical, but you can do it.

[Juneaudave]

Yes I know I'm not supposed to do this...but...my friend brought over his buzz box stick welder today so I could weld up my trailer. It needs a 30 amp 115 circuit (so the plug is wrong). Assuming a fella is smart enough not to burn down his house, and the welder is rated at 26 amp, do you figure I could swap out a 20 amp circuit recepticle to a 30 amp recepticle for a short time? I have a 50 amp 220 circuit to my shop, but no 220 welder...constructive thoughts? Alternatively, I guess a fella could rent a generator for day...Having it welded in a shop is not in the cards due to cost and...quite frankly...I want to do it myself!!!