Dare to be different

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Dare to be different

Postby Classic Finn » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:37 pm

I dont know where to post this but I thought Id mention. Im having my tear frame fabricated by a gentleman with over 30 yrs experience that I know and I suggested I dont want to have it galvanized as is the custom here since I want it powder coated. He dont agree with it.

Is it somthing different to these folks or dont they believe in powder coating a trailer frame.. Or just set in his ways in sticking to galvanized. :? :?

I just dare to be different here for once but as a pro welder and frame maker he just dont agree. He states that with powder coat he cant give a full warranty as he can with a galvanized one. What do you folks think?

Can it be painted afterwards with paint or no? Gee :oops: :oops:
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Postby synaps3 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:10 pm

If you're going to powder coat it, the galvanizing doesn't matter anyways! :lol:

If he's that old of a timer, he probably is from the days before powder coating. In my opinion (and I am, by no means an expert), you should skip the galvanizing if you're powder coating afterward.

You might want to make sure that the powder coat has a UV layer over it -- powder coat degrades after 5-10 years in the sun.
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Postby Classic Finn » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:26 pm

There are many companies here in our country that build utility trailers of all sizes and shapes. Ive spoken with almost all of them. And they all believe that only galvanizing is #1

But then again teardrops are only a couple :D and a few motorcycle trailers.

Is it that galvanizing these frames will outlast powder coating ? That is why this gentleman isnt too keen on it?
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Postby Ageless » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:43 pm

In tooling; we never painted over the welds as they had to be inspected yearly for visible cracks. The original welds were magnafluxed. Perhaps your welder is going by specification from his many years experience?
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Postby synaps3 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:45 pm

Finn -

In your part of the world, probably not.

Galvanization is basically electroplating a metal with another, less likely to corrode metal. Eventually (especially in salty conditions, from road salt or sea salt), the galvanized layer will corrode off and rust will form.

If I could choose between the two, I would choose powder coating hands-down.

Galvanizing exposed metal is a GOOD practice. It should always be done, because it only takes one rain storm to turn a shiny coat of metal into rust, especially in urban areas (acid rain). Even better than galvanizing, is using a layer of paint or powder coat.

Think of it as the difference between staining wood with a surface varnish and saying "good enough," and coating wood with epoxy. Which do you think would last longer? :)

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Postby 48Rob » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:17 pm

Heikki,

I am by NO means an expert on either...but, I do have a lot of "consumer" experience with powder coated products.

Let me first say I don't have anything against powder coating, only that my experiences have been less than good.

Snow plow parts, salt spreader parts, reciever hitch parts, 3 point hitch parts, and more, we have purchased, have been "powder coated" by the manufacturers and touted as offering "superior" protection because of it.

These parts "look" pretty, and the paint (powder) stays intact longer than conventionally painted parts.
The problem I've encountered is that the superior layer of plastic (powder) conceals the rust damage going on UNDER the plastic powdercoat.
By the time we realize the part is rotting away, it is too late to repair it.
With regular paint, it fails, flakes off, and you can see the rust, at which point you can correct the problem.

With powder, it stays hidden until the damage is to severe to repair.

Based on my experiences, galvanizing is a better, and safer long term solution.
(No doubt in California where nothing ever rusts, it is the best thing ever invented, but not in Illinois, or other rust prone locations)

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Postby doug hodder » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:32 am

You can paint the galv. later, however, you have to use the correct primer for it. An epoxy based primer would work fine with it, at least that's what I've read. If you want a colored frame, you ought to check with the local paint shops and see what they would recommend for a paint system over the galv. I'm sure your environmental rules are different than ours so plan it out. Do a web search on paint over galvanized and see what you get. Doug
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Postby Juneaudave » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:47 am

60 years from now...people will be admiring the vintage Lil Swan Teardrop and be thankful for the builder's foresight in galvanizing the trailer!!!
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Postby Larwyn » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:04 pm

48Rob wrote:Heikki,

I am by NO means an expert on either...but, I do have a lot of "consumer" experience with powder coated products.

Let me first say I don't have anything against powder coating, only that my experiences have been less than good.

Snow plow parts, salt spreader parts, reciever hitch parts, 3 point hitch parts, and more, we have purchased, have been "powder coated" by the manufacturers and touted as offering "superior" protection because of it.

These parts "look" pretty, and the paint (powder) stays intact longer than conventionally painted parts.
The problem I've encountered is that the superior layer of plastic (powder) conceals the rust damage going on UNDER the plastic powdercoat.
By the time we realize the part is rotting away, it is too late to repair it.
With regular paint, it fails, flakes off, and you can see the rust, at which point you can correct the problem.

With powder, it stays hidden until the damage is to severe to repair.

Based on my experiences, galvanizing is a better, and safer long term solution.
(No doubt in California where nothing ever rusts, it is the best thing ever invented, but not in Illinois, or other rust prone locations)

Rob


I've had the exact same experience with powder coated items. By the time the coating flakes off there is often a rusty pitted mess under it. The base casting of my Delta jointer was apparently not properly prepared for the powder coating as it was flaking off right out of the box with no rust under it. I'm another who fails to see any advantage to encasing metal parts in a plastic sheath that lets moisture in and holds it there, creating a perfect oxidation chamber.
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Postby Shadow Catcher » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:15 pm

Or go with aluminum.
Steel rusts if water can get to it, Galvanizing works well but weakens welds (hydrogen embritelment) I personally would go with powdercoating.

You can actually do a magnetic particle inspection through paint (Magniflux is a company trade name, I worked for them for 12 years). I am certified level III MT, PT, UT, RT, ET. Worked on everything from Space Shuttle to antique car parts.
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Galvanizing

Postby eamarquardt » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:43 pm

There are two types of galvanizing (zinc coating). Electroplating (like chrome, gold, silver, etc) and hot dip (dipping the steel in a vat of molten zinc).

Hydrogen embrittlement is more of a problem with the electroplating process than when the hot dip process is employed. See:

http://www.galvanizeit.org/images/uploa ... lement.pdf

Given than marine anchors, fencing, power transmission towers, and all manner of other things where durability, rather than appearance, is the prime concern are galvanized versus powder coated, I think that galvanizing offers more protection against rust. The hot dip process is much like soldering. There is a molecular bonding between the steel and zinc just like that between the copper and solder when soldering (that's why the copper tip of your soldering iron dissolves as you use it). This is why galvanizing will not peel like a paint or powder coat (a thermoplastic as I understand it).

Painting galvanized is tricky but can be done.

Here in So. Cal. rust is not an issue. I suspect it is in your neck of the world. Galvanizing will definitely offer more protection.

I just fabricated two 26 foot beams for a pool cover and took them to LA for hot dip galvaizing two weeks ago. Had to borrow my son's pu, hang the beams 10 feet over the front of my utility trailer and 6 feet off the back.

Hope this this helps.

Cheers,

Gus
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Postby Classic Finn » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:14 am

Thank you everyone for your replies and good info on the galvanizing issue.

I came back yesterday from a company that has been making utility trailers for over 30 years plus.

I spoke with the company director for over 2 hours about different things concerning trailers and teardrop trailers and about my friends here on the famous T&TTT. I also showed him the website and the magnificent builds. He was quite interested 8) :) .

Well anyway. He told me this. Galvanizing is best for protection of the frame or any other item that he builds especially in our quickly changing climate and geographical location. The entire frame is dipped into a tank. Not just sprayed on.

Some holes may need to be drilled into the frame if its steel that is not U shaped or one that cannot be accessed by the galvanizing.

Now this is interesting to me however also logical. Galvanized steel can be powder painted however a lite sanding or beadblasting or equivalent can be done in order to have the powder coat stick. Not removing the coating of galvanizing.

On powder coating only, the frame intends to start rusting from the inside out. Causing damage that cannot be seen and at times too late to repair when noticed.

So this is what will be done to our tear frame. Dipped in galvanizing tank and lightly scuffed or so called sanded. Then painted by powder coating.
The company also has a newly built yacht trailer that this procedure has undergone.

Also he stated that the best way to do this is let the galvanized trailer frame sit outside in the elements for a longer period of time and then do the scuffing of the steel and then proceed to powder coat.

Another learning session in my ol age. :lol: :)
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Right!

Postby eamarquardt » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:56 am

The fellow you spoke with "speaks with straight tongue"!

Cheers,

Gus
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Re: Right!

Postby Classic Finn » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:46 am

eamarquardt wrote:The fellow you spoke with "speaks with straight tongue"!

Cheers,

Gus


It sure sounded that way Gus. ;) :thumbsup: I,ll get photos of the tear frame for you as soon as I get it home. :thumbsup: :D
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Postby Cliffmeister2000 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:40 am

Heikke,

I am really enjoying this thread and your adventure. I would love to have the skills, capital, and market to build teardrops for profit! Alas, such is not the case, so I will have to be satisfied living this part of my dream vicariously through you, as I have so many in the build journals!
God Bless

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