Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby alaska teardrop » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:12 am

    Hi, Zack
    Just saw your new build thread. What a cool design. :thumbsup:
    Since the notch won't show behind the wheel & only the axle tube needs to pass through the side walls, it looks like you'll still be able to adjust for final balance. In this old thread there is a discussion about making sure that the axle swing arms clear the cabin sides - a matter of axle overhang & hub face to hub face dimension.
    I hope that you'll document the process of changing axles. I think it will be a good resource for others.
    Fred
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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby absolutsnwbrdr » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:36 pm

Just following up in this thread... my Torflex is installed. Easy as could be!

Link to the post in my build thread: viewtopic.php?p=1065563#p1065563
Zach

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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby alaska teardrop » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:36 pm

    :applause: Zach, points to you for teardrop community service. :beer:
    Fred
Northern Lite Traveler design: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=51991
Minimalist torsion axle frame: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=12220
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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby amp1ron » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:06 pm

It's probably too late to help, but I've been away from here for far too long to respond sooner. There are pictures of how I reinforced the side C-channel of my NT frame when I attached a torsion axle to it at http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?p=945851#p945851 . I need to warn you that my trailer isn't finished yet, so this reinforcement hasn't been road-tested. But it was a simple modification.
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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby absolutsnwbrdr » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:28 pm

Good idea! I'll check on my frame at the end of this season and see how its holding up. With the axle assembly acting as a rigid cross-member I wouldn't imagine that the extra reinforcing is necessary, but it certainly won't hurt. I think that the individual stock leaf spring mounting brackets would create much greater stress points compared to the torsion axles mounting brackets.
Zach

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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby angib » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:31 am

If you are custom-ordering a Dexter torsion axle, the Dexter diagram below (with enlargement) suggest that the axle can be ordered with 'reverse orientation' mounting brackets that would put the vertical leg of the mounting bracket in line with the vertical leg of the trailer frame, in which case I don't see the need to add any reinforcement.

dexter1.JPG
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dexter2.JPG
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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby Art Mini » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:04 am

I used a NT 5x8 frame and extended it 18" to 9'6". I just got a couple more pieces of frame cut and welded them. I used the smaller cross members to run inside the side rails for strength. Now I'm dealing with moving the axle forward. From the factory the axle is center at 42" from the back. Now my frame is 114" long so I centered the axle 54" from the back. I'm very happy with the way it worked out. Now I just need to finish the trailer.

That's my plan, for a few reasons:

1.) I priced a custom welded 5x8 frame, and cheapest estimates came in around $1200 - just for a custom frame - no axle, tires, wheels, lights, coupler, etc. JUST A CUSTOM FRAME - STEEL AND LABOR. :?

2.) I can get a Northern Tool kit for less than $500. Add $280 for a Dexter torsion axle, $300 for larger wheels/tires (that I was planning on anyway), and that all still comes in less than the best custom frame estimate.

3.) A custom frame does not come with a certificate of origin, so registration/titling would be a pain in the a$$. Northern Tool is just like HF and gives you a MCO, and the trailer already has a VIN.

4.) Although the NT frame doesn't have some of the features that I had figured into the custom frame, I can still achieve everything that I wanted to - but using different methods. Overall geometry is still the same.


Before anyone asks.... yes, I got multiple estimates on my custom frame design: two places came in at $1200, another at $1400, and one at $2400 (dumba$$es).[/quote]
HAVE FUN STORMING THE CASTLE!!!!
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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby paintm4u » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:34 pm

OK good plan but I do feel sorry for you in one regard, the welders in your area are over charging you by half. I live in Kansas, yes armpit of the country, but, I had a custom trailer frame built to my plan, 5' x 10' with axle and 15" wheels and tires, tongue jack and built heavy duty for 4 wheel drive use in the Colorado mountains for.....$750.00 ...Oh also a registrable title. I also had my choice of axles, torsion or tube.
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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby absolutsnwbrdr » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:05 pm

paintm4u wrote:OK good plan but I do feel sorry for you in one regard, the welders in your area are over charging you by half. I live in Kansas, yes armpit of the country, but, I had a custom trailer frame built to my plan, 5' x 10' with axle and 15" wheels and tires, tongue jack and built heavy duty for 4 wheel drive use in the Colorado mountains for.....$750.00 ...Oh also a registrable title. I also had my choice of axles, torsion or tube.


Congratulations. Unfortunately the welders most likely aren't "over-charging". Services vary by location, just like living expenses. Higher living expenses = higher wages = higher cost.

Nice looking trailer you have there, but for many of us, the bolt together frames are the more economical way to go. :roll:
Zach

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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby QueticoBill » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:40 pm

I've been thinking about this and after a lot of thought, and not many mentions of failures if the original NT axel and wheels, have decided to not upgrade. That being the case, if someone ends up with an extra NT axel, hubs, wheels, and tires - current or compatible version - I'd be interested.
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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby Homebrewer25 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:28 am

I've been playing around with the trailer balance spreadsheet a bit this week, and had a question about using a torflex axle. The spreadsheet requires a measurement from the back of the trailer to the axle, and of course with leaf springs it is also the wheel center. But with a torflex the wheel center is approx 6" behind the axle center, and I'm not sure which measurement to use in the spreadsheet.

I'm planning on using a #9 Dexter torflex with 14" wheels/tires on a customized NT 5x8. I plan on extending the tongue similar to how Zach did it on the X-Cubed, then extend the frame at the back end. I'm planning to extend the trailer frame by using 2 of the 5' cross rails to extend the side rails, overlapping by approx 2' to achieve 11' total. I was figuring on centering the Dexter axle mounting brackets on that overlapped area. This would leave only the wide cross member on the frame, but the torflex should add some rigidity. If necessary I can add a couple of pieces of angle iron as new cross members.

This would put the axle center about 48" (36%) from the back of the frame, but the wheel center would be about 42" (32%) from the back. Using some very rough estimates I've found that the tongue weight will be a bit high ... somewhere around 250 lbs ... when using the actual wheel center as the distance from the back of the frame.

So which should I use ... axle center, or wheel center? My intuition is to use wheel center, and my reasoning is this: Imagine that the axle location is the perfect balance point of the trailer when it is raised off the ground ... the resulting tongue weight would be zero. Then lower it to the ground ... the wheels are 6" behind the balance point, so the tongue weight would increase considerably.

Any thoughts on this?
It's 5 o'clock somewhere ... time for a :beer:

Steve
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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby Aguyfromohio » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:49 am

Art Mini wrote:...I priced a custom welded 5x8 frame, and cheapest estimates came in around $1200 - just for a custom frame - no axle, tires, wheels, lights, coupler, etc. JUST A CUSTOM FRAME - STEEL AND LABOR. :?....


We paid a weld shop to make us custom frames.
We paid $850 each, but we bought two of them at the same time for a total price of $1,700 plus sales tax.
For that money we got the welded frames with the A-frame tongue, no paint, no axles. We provided the couplers and jack stabilizing plates, the shop welded them on.

We got a few quotes and some were absurd, as high as $3,000 each. The high quotes were from larger industrial fabrication shops, I think they were politely telling us they would rather not fool with the small order. from a retail customer The shop we bought from was a small one-man operation.
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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby tony.latham » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:07 pm

We got a few quotes and some were absurd...


I think it might scare some folks on how easy it is to learn to weld. I spent three nights in a community welding class, bought a refurbished Hobart wire-feed and haven't looked back.

When my wife sold me on the idea of building a teardrop for your son's wedding gift, she brought up the fact that she wanted to learn to weld. After thirty minutes of practicing on scrap steel, I turned her loose on the trailer chassis.

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It's not that big of a skill to learn.

Tony :beer: :thumbsup:
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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby working on it » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:17 pm

tony.latham wrote:I think it might scare some folks on how easy it is to learn to weld. I spent three nights in a community welding class, bought a refurbished Hobart wire-feed and haven't looked back.
  • After watching expert welder/fabricators for years, while at work or at friends' hot-rod shops, I had never actually trained. nor done a welding project on my own. Though I had tried a little welding with a friend's 220vac Miller mig, a couple of tries with a 220vac Lincoln stick welder at work (and a couple of passes using a Tig), I had never used one for a completed piece of work. My access to welders at work was now past, as was my access to the hot-rod shops I had been using, so when I was faced with replacing my TTT's axle, and reinforcing/repairing a torn frame, I had no welder to use.
  • I went to Northern Tool, and bought their 220vac stick welder (Northern Industrial Arc 200), which I wanted to do 1/4" steel frame work, before I ever investigated the garage wiring. Like everything else the previous owner/builder of my now-defunct house had installed or touched, it was totally wrong, and not nearly adequate for that welder. I have just now replaced that wiring with the correct stuff, from house to garage, during my new house project. So now, once I empty the stored furniture from the garage, I'll be ready to stick weld. But, at that time, after seeing how much it would cost to completely re-do our total house/garage wiring, I opted to try the household current 125vac welder Northern had.
  • I hadn't tried a fluxcore welder but once, for a single bead, before I bought it. I tried welding a "redneck engineering" temporary front towbar device as practice, prior to beginning my axle replacement/ frame reinforcement project, but it looked very bad (though it worked fine) . I had tried welding a chromed hitch ball to mild steel, which I found out is difficult. Nevertheless, against the consensus of many forum members, I launched into my project. I completed my welds, finally, and took my finished assemblies to work, where I had our welding expert inspect and test them for flaws. He found none, and was very impressed when I told him that I used a 125vac fluxcore unit. My neighbor has had the same impression from using it, several times. But still, I intend to retouch my work, 4 years and many miles later, with the big stick welder.
  • Necessity is the mother of invention - when the need for something becomes essential, you are forced to find ways of getting or achieving it. I had to make the fluxcore welder work, and trained myself to do so (with a little luck, and a fail-safe [bolt-on + weld-on] mounting scheme). I've done very little welding since then, as my fluxcore spends a lot of time on my neighbor's projects, so as soon as my garage is cleared and ready, then I can use the big boy 220vac welder (assuming I can still crawl under my trailer, by that time...I'm old and worn out!).
  • my Northern welders.jpg
    my Northern welders.jpg (214.38 KiB) Viewed 1582 times
    if the big "stick" welder works as great as the little "fluxcore", then I'll be very pleased!
  • frame reinforcement, and welded & bolted-on spring hangers.jpg
    frame reinforcement, and welded & bolted-on spring hangers.jpg (101.43 KiB) Viewed 1582 times
    probably not perfect welds, but they've survived many bad roads!
Last edited by working on it on Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 HHRv "squareback/squaredrop", semi-offroad, 4x8 TTT, 2065 lbs
  • *3500 lb Dexter EZ-Lube axle, w/brakes, 3000 lb. springs, & active-progressive bumpstops
  • *27x8.5-14LT all-terrain tires (x 3) *modified Weight Distribution system for single-beam tongue
  • *LED lighting, triple fans, Pioneer stereo *A/C & 110vac heat, Optima AGM, inverter & charger(s)
  • *extended-run, on-board, 2500w generator *Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern, Ikea grill
  • *zinc/stainless steel front racks *96"L x 6"Dia. rooftop fishing rod/reel carrier
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Re: Dexter Tosion Axle on Northen Tool 5x8 kit?

Postby absolutsnwbrdr » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:32 am

Its not for the lack of desire to learn to weld, but in many states its much easier to register a trailer that already has a VIN and has a certificate of origin.
Zach

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