5 x10 trailer help "A Slow Benroy build"

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5 x10 trailer help "A Slow Benroy build"

Postby ibbowhunting » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:26 pm

ok I'm attempting to build a 5 x 10 benroy type teardrop, the trailer (homemade) is started, 3 inch x 3 inch 1/4 angle iron with the L up on the front and sides and down in the rear, my question is how to best integrate the trailer to the teardrop with out losing a lot of head room, and try to keep water out between the trailer and camper ,I'm going to using 4 x 10 x 3/4 side walls, the trailer is 5ft x 10ft
Last edited by ibbowhunting on Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby KCStudly » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:31 pm

I'm assuming that the trailer frame is already built, otherwise I would start with tubing.

For simple plywood construction I would consider attaching the side walls to the outside vertical leg of the L using construction adhesive or sealant spread right to the bottom edge, and bolts. Then seal the floor similarly to the inside ledge. The hatch can extend down and seal against the lower vertical flap of the rear L.

Be sure to seal all edges with epoxy or something like "the mix" (50/50 mineral spirits and oil based polyurethane).

If you are doing built up walls you might just let the outer skin extend down to cover the outside of the angle. The sill of the wall frame could be notched to receive the upward facing legs of the L's with the L being sandwiched and thru bolted.

I would stay away from any scheme where the cabin sits down inside of the L giving a place for water to collect, unless you are doing a slide out. For a slide out I would put rub rails on the lower sides of the cabin and under the floor. The rub rails would provide and air gap and make it easier to slide the cabin in and out.

Just $.02 worth of random thoughts. Good luck with your build. :thumbsup:
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby ibbowhunting » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:21 pm

The trailer is not finished but started, I could flip the angle iron over with 3 of the four L's pointing down leaving the one In the front pointing up to leave room to slide the tongue pieces (3" channel) in as a v , or I could cut and flip the angle so all four l's point down this would require the front angle to be notched to except the u channel tongue, as far as starting over with square tube, I have all the required materials to build It of angle, maybe on the next one, but I got to get this one done first and find out what I will do different next time, I really don't like the idea of the angles pointing up and holding water but I think the angle is tougher pointing up rather than pointing down but I'm thinking it will be plenty strong either way, the teardrop will be skinned with 4 x 10 metal sheeting and was thinking of adding diamond plate aluminum along the bottom say a foot or less this could help cover the trailer up, any ideas?
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby KCStudly » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:15 pm

To keep water from collecting legs down would be better, IMO, so worth flipping and redoing one end.

I would not notch the L for the tongue. Use short sections of the L welded toe to toe to form box sections where the tongue meets the main frame, then weld the tongue to these flat pads (under slung tongue).
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby ibbowhunting » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:46 pm

ok on to the tongue, the plan was to use 3' c channel in a v to form a tongue then I have a v style 2' hitch, what length should the tongue be from the teardrop to center of the ball ? I'm wanting a tongue box and a propane tank out in front of it
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby KCStudly » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:38 pm

Std angle is 50 deg's. The rest is determined by how wide your frame is and how far back you want the tongue to overlap the main frame vs. how much stuff you want to put on the tongue and still have room to swing the tongue jack handle or folding jack.

Turning radius is also a factor.

You really should look at your particular situation and work from there.

As a point of reference my 50 deg A-frame is 63-5/8 inches long from the point where the two 2 inch wide tubes meet behind the coupler (the tip) to the point where they meet the outside surface of the main frame rails (the base of the 'A'). I allowed 26-5/8 inches of overlap between the tongue and main frame, so the frame part of the tongue sticks out 37 inches. I erred on the side of strength here. The pivot point of my coupler is several inches ahead of a standard ball so that compensates some. My TB will hang off the sides of the A-frame a few inches, the box is fairly shallow front to back, and the sides are angled parallel to the tongue sides; all compromising clearance vs. capacity. There is not enough room for a gas bottle given the centrally located fixed tongue jack and top mounted hand crank sweep (although I intend to unbolt the jack and stow it in the TB while towing to improve ground clearance).

I have not tested any of this to confirm turning clearance. :shock: :frightened: Wish me luck. :worship:

To get a longer tongue, while maintaining good overlap to the main frame, especially on a narrower chassis, the A-frame angle can be reduced, or a composite tongue could be considered (A-frame with center member that extends forward from the tip) but then a straight coupler would be used.
Last edited by KCStudly on Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby ibbowhunting » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:13 pm

I been thinking a lot about roof coverings, I know I'm thinking way head of what I got done but I have easy access to 4 x 10 ft sheeting (color clad) which I would like to use for the walls and roof, but because of my 5ft wide trailer the roof sheeting will have seams in it any ideas on making those seems waterproof or should I start looking for 5 wide material
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby Nobody » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:24 pm

On my 5' wide X 114" long TD I cut & laid the 4x12' aluminum sheets crosswise. Just make sure to have a sturdy spar where each seam will be located. Also each overlap must face away from wind/rain when the trailer is underway, i.e. overlap down at the front & toward the rear on top. I overlapped each seam 1.5-2", laid down 2 beads of adhesive/sealant (PL1200 I think??) & secured with 3/4" #8 Pan Head stainless screws every 2" the length of the seam. After screws were in place I removed each screw individually & added sealant to the hole then replaced the screw.

On my lower front (& lower sides) I used a heavier (0.063") 'diamond tread' aluminum for trim & protection from 'wheel thrown' objects. I didn't overlap them downward (due to construction constraints) but did overlap them at least 3" & used 3 beads of sealant & duplicated the procedure with the screws.

After almost 9yrs & +25K miles, NO leaks from these seams EVER...

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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby ibbowhunting » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:10 pm

ok I going to change my planned tongue length which requires a trip to the steel store, original I planned on using 3 channel for the tongue, but I see the supplier also has 3x2 or 3 x 1 1/2 box iron in 1/8 wall will that work just as well or better then 3" channel ? The tongue will be the vee type witch will be under the main frame of the trailer to the first cross member back from the front of the trailer
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby ibbowhunting » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:11 pm

anybody?
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby KCStudly » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:20 pm

So, the reason you might not be getting a straightforward answer is because it is not such a simple question and many of the parameters required to give a definitive answer are not present.

How long will your tongue be from front of cabin to ball center?

Will it extend to the second xmbr and how far back is that?

A-frame with center member, or just single member?

If a composite tongue, does the center member extend further forward than the 'A', or does it end at the tip of the 'A'?

What size (schedule) of channel (there are many formats with different weights and thicknesses) and which direction were you planning to install it (web up flat or two pieces back to back like an I-beam... or two pieces toe to toe like HSS)?

Maybe some of these questions have been depicted in your prior posts, but it would be helpful if you pull it together with the question.

Personally I prefer box tube for most things. It may be a little more expensive for the same moment of inertia (bending resistance), but it is much easier to terminate when fabricating joints and has more bending resistance in the secondary axis. It is often time more ergonomic and appealing to the eye, too.

Have you seen the Unified Tongue Strength tutorial in the Design Resources (in the header above^^^)?
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby ibbowhunting » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:29 pm

A frame tongue,just a v no center member
mostly use on road, pull by a astro van so not a lot of off-roading but maybe a little
42 inch tongue from cabin to the pin
23" back to the second cross member
un braked on road 2130 lbs total weight
braked on road 1420 lbs total weight
listed for 2 x 2 x 1/8
I'm planning on buying 3 x 2 x 1/8 which I didn't see on the chart but In my mind should carry more weight then the 2x2x 1/8 listed above
by using sharons weight chart 50 sq ft should fall around 1100 to 1750 lbs I'm going to call it a heavy which by the formula could weigh in around 2000lbs, I'm guessing at 1500lbs just a guess
correct me if I'm wrong
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby KCStudly » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:30 pm

That all looks correct, except that the rectangular sections are shown a little further down on the page.

Using 42 inches, 2000 lbs over the road weight, unbraked road, welded steel frame, it shows 190% for 3x2x1/8.

For braked, 127%.

For off road, heavy tongue weight/rearward axle, braked, etc. etc., 91%.

It doesn't say if a safety factor has been built into the calc's, and it is common practice to use 1.5 SF as a minimum, so for on road unbraked you would be good.

For braked or heavy tongue (i.e. axle set further back than typical or heavy tongue box) you might consider stepping up to 3x2x3/16 thk.

For off road (or the other hedge factors) at that weight, I would go with the 3/16 wall tubing.

Keep in mind that I am of the opinion that people tend to under estimate the weight of their builds and possessions, and also tend to over pack. Stuff goes in but doesn't come back out, so best bet is to err up on the tongue. However lightly you build the rest, all of the load of the stiff cabin is transmitted thru the point where the relatively flexible tongue attaches to it and what ever portion of that 2000 lbs (plus acceleration/deceleration forces) that is acting on a 3-1/2 foot lever is going to be significant. Guess wrong by 200 lbs of extra weight or cargo (deep cycle battery, 10 gal water, extra propane tank, 2 CI DO's, that 120w solar panel... adds up fast) and that's a 10% error.
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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby ibbowhunting » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:18 pm

so what would you do? I picked up some used metal today for around a buck a foot its is 2x4x3/16 alittle over kill for my tongue, but the only con I can see in my calculations is the added weight which should be about 37lbs heavier then my planned 3x2x 1/8 tongue which I havnt bought yet

your opinions are wecome
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Re: 5 x 10 trailer help

Postby KCStudly » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:15 pm

2x4x3/16 is really overkill; that's what I used on my 7k lb tandem axle car hauler trailer. I would rather have that 37 lb difference back in cargo margin or put it into the "I'm trying not to build heavy" slush fund (i.e. you will probably want it back later).

Since you asked, if it were my build, at your planned weight I would have gone with the 2x3x3/16, even if I had to buy a stick. But then my build has brakes and I am planning a long trip on mountainous forest service roads, my battery will be tongue mounted and my TB is a moderate size (tho the box itself is built very light).

If you are unbraked, don't plan on loading up your tongue with a lot of storage (small TB, battery aft, spare tire elsewhere, no 25 lb gas bottle) and you aren't planning on bombing thru a bunch of stone strewn dirt roads and washouts, then the 2x3x1/8 would probably be adequate.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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