Help with bolt pattern question

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Help with bolt pattern question

Postby Graniterich » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:59 pm

I have been building on HF or northern tools trailers only. I was approached by a guy who would like to have the same bolt pattern as his Tacoma which is 6x139.7. I have read about hub adapters, changing hubs, changing axle.... Another option (higher cost) would be go with a better welded trailer I find locally in so Cal. Not sure what that might cost yet.

Sure appreciate your opinions. Not trying to start a flame war on HF trailers they have there place, and have suited my needs for years.

Thanks
Rich
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Re: Help with bolt pattern question

Postby Padilen » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:28 pm

Would he want the same tire wheel combo? If so and if there is an adapter or hub replacement available will tire wheel combo have enough clearance to clear the frame?
I ask because I had 2sets of rims and an axle. They had correct bolt pattern for axle hubs. But center hole in rims wouldn't fit over hub end. And the second set they did fit over hub end. However they were to wide and covered the spring perch.
HF trailers were designed with a small tire wheel combo so this might not even be possible.
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Re: Help with bolt pattern question

Postby Graniterich » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:30 am

Yes, he wants to share his existing spare.
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Re: Help with bolt pattern question

Postby Dale M. » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:58 am

One major issue is "offset", a "0" (zero) off set wheel the bolting surface is in exact center of wheel.... Most "trailer" wheels are of this design... Most passenger wheels have a offset (front or rear) of up to several inches, this allows the bolting surface to move in or out so for appearance or for clearance of brake assemblies and still keep the load center of wheel in center of bearings....

Image

Wheel offset will dictate what you can easily do... If wheel & tire when bolted up to existing hub with adapter may not have enough clearance and back of tire will run trailer body , then a wider axle is in order, if wheel/tire combination fits and have clearance then the adapter may be simplest.... Using the HF hub and a adapter and TV wheel (spare) will require you to remove the flat tire and then install the adapter then TV spare, an extra step but not rocket science... Ultimately if "client" wants to use spare of his TV then the best solution would be to get a set of matching wheels and have axle made to fit application (6 lug)... You can either place new axle under HF frame of have custom frame made up that better fits the build specification...

Somethings to burn the brain cells with...

http://images.lmgtfy.com/?q=wheel+offset
http://images.lmgtfy.com/?q=wheel+adapters
http://images.lmgtfy.com/?q=wheel+spacers

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You are free to ignore anything I say if you do not agree.

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Re: Help with bolt pattern question

Postby angib » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:55 am

Using the same spare is surely something taught in 'wise old man' (I'm being polite here) school, by wise old men who haven't done it themselves?

As well as the bolt pattern, you have to consider:
- center bore (the diameter of the hole in the center of the wheel) and the diameter of the HF hub;
- offset;
- wheel/tire size.

To put Tacoma wheels onto a HF trailer, an adapter would be needed to convert from HF bolt pattern (4x101.6mm?) to one of the Tacoma bolt patterns (5x114.3mm or 6x139.7mm). This will push the wheel outwards which may be helpful because the Tacoma wheel offset will something like 30mm, whereas the HF wheels are zero offset.

The center bore on the Tacoma wheel (106.1mm) so that will fit over the HF hub if it needs to - but then the adapter will space the wheel away from the hub.

Next thing to consider is wheel offset and width. Temporarily increasing the offset by using an adapter (only when the spare is fitted) would not concern me, though it wouldn't be good practice for permanent use. But then the tire on the Tacoma wheel (presumably full size) will be between 245 and 265 width, so it that won't be able to be bolted onto the HF trailer as it would be hard against the frame rails or body side wall before the wheel touches the adapter. To get round that a massively thick adapter (say around 100mm thick) could be custom-made, to space the Tacoma wheel/tire out from the hub so its inside face is no further in than the inside face of the HF wheel/tire was.

But then you hit the final problem, that the tire on the Tacoma spare will be much bigger overall diameter than the HF wheel/tire, so the trailer fenders would have to be made removable so that the Tacoma spare could be fitted - or else mounted comically high up.

When all that is done, the custom-made adapter will cost many times as much as a HF spare wheel/tire. The sensible thing is really to just buy a HF spare wheel and fit that to the trailer.
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Re: Help with bolt pattern question

Postby tony.latham » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:17 am

I was approached by a guy who would like to have the same bolt pattern as his Tacoma which is 6x139.7.


Which equates to a 6 x 5.5" hub pattern, which of course are a standard size. Since you're building this project from scratch, I would think that the cheapest way of taking this on would be to go with a new axle with the appropriate hubs. You can figure out whether you want to stick it on a Harbor Freight trailer or go with a custom chassis. (And torsion axles are sweet BTW...)

I do know that Tacoma wheels don't work with standard lug nuts (the shoulder is different) and of course the hub lugs will be SAE thread and not metric (like the Tacoma lugs). But fear not, you can get the appropriate lug nuts through your local tire shop.

Tony (I think I sound a bit like a Dale M. clone on this.) :thumbsup:
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Re: Help with bolt pattern question

Postby dales133 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:37 pm

You should be able to just replace the hubs shouldnt you?
I got my axle and hubs from a trailer supply place and i got land cruiser (same as tacoma) hubs to suit 16x10 rims but the same axle fits 15x8 in 2 different configurations.
Toyota 6 stud wheels are zero offset
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Re: Help with bolt pattern question

Postby Shadow Catcher » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:06 pm

If he is going to off road with it you will need a much stronger everything. Adapters/spacers are inherently less strong and a much bigger tire wheel combination will add additional stress to hub bearings etc. I have an adapter so that I can use the TV spare on the trailer but would not think of using it for more than a short time.

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Re: Help with bolt pattern question

Postby martymcfly » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:31 pm

I would not have an issue with using a spacer. Sprint car racers have been using wheel spacers for years to make changes to the way that their race cars handle. Adding a wheel spacer is kind of like softening a spring. That is a pretty extreme environment and I have never seen one fail. However using spacers will change the load on wheel bearings. I believe that a properly maintained hub would not be the first to fail. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Re: Help with bolt pattern question

Postby Graniterich » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:57 pm

You people are great! Thanks for all the knowledge. I will let you all know what happens.
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