Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over axle)

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Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over axle)

Postby TimC » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:53 am

Have any of you turned the spring binder bolt around... specifically on the N. Tool Ironton 5x8? I am hoping to build with spring above the axle and hope when I try to remove the bolt it is not pressed in. If it is pressed in is it a bugger to remove/re-install backwards?

Some details... the axle is straight/flat, I don't care about the U Channel being up-side-down (open on top if reversed), the nut doesn't appear to be "locked on" the bolt in any way (no locktite compound visible, no pings in the side of the nut or on the bottom face of the bolt at the nut)

Thanks,
Tim


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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby Camp4Life » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:25 pm

My guess it's a square hole and square bolt above the threading. Best way to find out is to clamp the springs together and remove that nut :thinking:
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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby KennethW » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:53 pm

On a HF it is just a light press. Loosen the nut and tap on the nut.It should tap out. Don't pound on the end of the threads!
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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby TimC » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:27 pm

KennethW wrote:On a HF it is just a light press. Loosen the nut and tap on the nut.It should tap out. Don't pound on the end of the threads!


Thanks KennethW. I'm going to give it a try this afternoon and will post my findings. I will loosen the nut until the bolt is just shy of its surface then start rapping on it protecting it with a piece of hardwood and gradually trying some things harder without compromising the bolt/nut.
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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby TimC » Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:35 pm

WOW, what was I worrying about. The nut came off with little effort and the bolt dropped right out...

I put blue locktite on the bolt and tightened it right back up. I hope I shouldn't be concerned it fell out so easy. All it does is hold the springs from shifting either sideways and off the axle. Correct?

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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby Redneck Teepee » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:29 pm

I put blue locktite on the bolt and tightened it right back up. I hope I shouldn't be concerned it fell out so easy. All it does is hold the springs from shifting either sideways and off the axle. Correct?

Yes it is simply a locating pin for the axle and to keep the individual springs from going fore or aft, your u-bolts hold it tight to the axle and prevent the springs from slipping or clocking sideways.......all the bases are covered. :thumbsup:
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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby QueticoBill » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:14 am

Along with mounting axle on top of springs, is there any problem with axel hitting frame when it bounces and springs compress? Best I can measure with unassembled parts is that the axel is about 5 1/4" clear below the frame when assembled normally, but not quite 3" when axel is on top of springs. Is that enough? Is it a worry that a deep hole or bump might cause axle to contact frame?
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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby TimC » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:26 pm

QueticoBill wrote:Along with mounting axle on top of springs, is there any problem with axel hitting frame when it bounces and springs compress? Best I can measure with unassembled parts is that the axel is about 5 1/4" clear below the frame when assembled normally, but not quite 3" when axel is on top of springs. Is that enough? Is it a worry that a deep hole or bump might cause axle to contact frame?


That's a good question QBill. I haven't measured the clearance. Actually, the NT trailer is still in the works and doesn't even have the floor mounted on it yet. I hope for the best.
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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby QueticoBill » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:49 am

So I've been studying parts and come to the conclusion that the top of the axle is 5 1/2" from frame when mounted under leaf springs and 3 1/4" when mounted over leaf springs. Somewhere, likely a boat trailer site, I read that trailers are designed so the vertical "travel" of the spring/axle should not exceed 1 1/2-2". E-trailer suggests 2-2 1/2", and to allow 3" for tire to fender/wheel well clearance. So - 3 1/4" is snug but should be OK especially not at maximum design load. I'm predicting around 1250 loaded for towing.

This begs the other question, are the u-bolts strong enough to "hang" the trailer from the axle, as opposed to just keeping it on top of the axle? On one side, steel is really strong in tension. On the other hand, no idea of the quality of the plates and bolts. Unfortunately, these seem to be an uncommon size - 2" springs and 1 3/4" square axle.

FWIW I'm thinking I will drill "bottom" of axle for the leaf spring bolt head rather than installing the channel upside down.
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Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over axle)

Postby Padilen » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:29 pm

Dexter makes an axle flip kit for Dexter axles. I did a flip on my CTC. All the hardware from Dexter is the same as what was on my CTC stock. So I doubt hardware will be an issue. Or that spring over makes them weak.


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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby working on it » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:30 pm

QueticoBill wrote:...are the u-bolts strong enough to "hang" the trailer from the axle, as opposed to just keeping it on top of the axle? On one side, steel is really strong in tension. On the other hand, no idea of the quality of the plates and bolts....
If you think about it...
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won't there be less force acting on or weight supported by the U-bolt, after reversal? The U-bolt is acting more as a locator for the axle, and a follower of the compression cycle, than previously.
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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby QueticoBill » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:21 am

I'm willing to be convinced but sure seems u-bolts hold all the weight in tension when underslung and only locate overslung. Stationary trailer - remove u-bolts - trailer frame drops into axle underslung, stays in same place overslung. Captions kind of day that.
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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby Socal Tom » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:19 pm

I did a spring over on mine a couple of years back, then I pulled it across the Mojave desert ( Mojave Rd), 109 miles of dirt road. According to the guys following me, the trailer was catching air on a regular basis over one stretch. ( I ended up eating a rim). The u bolts were fine. In a spring under config, the u bolts hold up the trailer weight, in spring over, the u bolts hold up the axle weight.
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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby QueticoBill » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:08 pm

I thought the tires and wheels held the axle weight in both conditions, supported by the ground, at least when wheels are on the pavement/ground. ;)

Does anyone else worry about the channel axle being web down and prone to holding muck? I think I read one person at least filled it with spray foam, but I'm not convinced that would mainatn a seal and not allow water in.
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Re: Ironton (NT) Spring Binder Bolt Reversal (spring over ax

Postby working on it » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:47 pm

Socal Tom wrote:I did a spring over on mine a couple of years back, then I pulled it across the Mojave desert ( Mojave Rd), 109 miles of dirt road. According to the guys following me, the trailer was catching air on a regular basis over one stretch. ( I ended up eating a rim). The u bolts were fine. In a spring under config, the u bolts hold up the trailer weight, in spring over, the u bolts hold up the axle weight.
Tom
Looks like your raising the height of the trailer, pretty much matching the roofline and floor height of your Jeep, allowed you to allow a higher volume of air pass virtually straight thru, unimpeded. The shape of your trailer, is not unlike a wing, truncated at the tail. If you had enough groundspeed over the (presumably) flat Mojave desert, and if you got just a small bounce upwards...you were towing a sailplane.
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