Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby working on it » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:15 am

rowerwet wrote:there is always a "thermal" of heated air rising over your body, it is the way you can get rid of enough heat to live. this warmer air will find it's way out through a large enough vent near the roof, colder air will come in and flow down the wall. put a vent on both sides up high, any breezes will help that way.
I don't have a roof vent as I don't want anything to get in the way of boat hauling, and don't want to take chances on leaks, the old timers seem to have avoided roof vents as well.
I forgot about convection currents moving the "trapped air" inside the sealed cabin; moving, but trapped...and the trapped air is rapidly becoming hot, humid, and with CO2 instead of oxygen. My vents are placed high up on the sides; I'll always have at least one cracked open (with or without the computer case fan running), since I already have experienced the unpleasant and dangerous alternative:
working on it wrote:In a matter of just 10-15 minutes, with no external airflow or A/C running, the humidity inside would rise from comfortable to miserable (48% to 99%). I guess that there was a considerable CO2 build-up also. And that's with just one person in the 4x8...
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby AZ_Desert_Rat » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:28 am

Years ago, my Dad, little brother, and myself were camping in the mountains during late November. There was snow on the ground and it was cold. We have driven most of the day, had finally reached our camp site late, and had plans to hunt elk the next few days. We crawled into the small pick-up camper, cracked the top vent and proceeded to go to sleep. Somewhere around 6:00 am Dad woke me up complaining of a nasty headache and that he couldn't get his matches to light (to light the lantern); I tried my butane lighter and it would not light either. :shock:
We opened the door and both the matches and lighter worked fine! :?

After we started to regain our composure, we looked inside the camper because we knew we had left the top vent open a small amount and to our surprise, the entire inside of the camper was covered with about a half inch of frost (from our breathes during the night), including the vent opening ... we basically sealed ourselves in a frozen coffin ... I am glad Dad's headache woke him up :worship:

My new CT conversion has two roof vents that are always open at night and wide enough to prevent frosting over in cold weather ... AND insulated to reduce the moisture condensation inside. :applause:

Be careful, a tight or even nearly tight camper/or tiny trailer can be deadly! :frightened:
Happy Camping & Building,
John (JC)


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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Prem » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:13 pm

Hot air rises. The sleeping body is hot so the air above it rises. A vent up high permanently open and a replacement vent down low permanently open makes for air flow coming in from outside (if lower than body temperature), thus preventing an early encounter with the afterlife.

:angel:
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby jseyfert3 » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:35 am

Prem wrote:Hot air rises. The sleeping body is hot so the air above it rises. A vent up high permanently open and a replacement vent down low permanently open makes for air flow coming in from outside (if lower than body temperature), thus preventing an early encounter with the afterlife.

:angel:

Hmm...I plan on getting the cover for my Fantastic Vent so I can use in the rain. If I do, I could simply cut a hole in the cover of the vent (original cover, nor the rain shroud cover) which would give me a permanent high vent hole.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Gage » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:32 am

jseyfert3 wrote: Hmm...I plan on getting the cover for my Fantastic Vent so I can use in the rain. If I do, I could simply cut a hole in the cover of the vent (original cover, nor the rain shroud cover) which would give me a permanent high vent hole.


Naw, just leave a window cracked open.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby jseyfert3 » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:17 am

Gage wrote:
jseyfert3 wrote: Hmm...I plan on getting the cover for my Fantastic Vent so I can use in the rain. If I do, I could simply cut a hole in the cover of the vent (original cover, nor the rain shroud cover) which would give me a permanent high vent hole.


Naw, just leave a window cracked open.

That too...but I may not even put in openable windows, actually.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Gage » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:52 pm

Then don't worry about anything and just do it the way you want to do it.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby lrrowe » Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:59 pm

Gage wrote:Then don't worry about anything and just do it the way you want to do it.


Gage, I am right there with you on the consequences. They weigh heavily on my mind. I had carbon monoxide poisoning once. Never again.
Bob

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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby AZ_Desert_Rat » Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:45 pm

We had left the roof vent "cracked" a bit ... I would guess about 1/4" to 3/8" or there abouts and the little camper shell was far from airtight. I did not elaborate on the weather and location; we were camped high up on the rim in Northern Arizona around December 1st; there was about a foot and a have of snow on the ground, a light wind blowing and the temp had to be below zero. there were three of us crammed in the camper shell ... my brother up on a bunk and Dad and I on a lower level. We had worked all day and then driven 4+ hours to get where we were. We had planned on setting a better camp, but tired as we were, we decided to sleep until dawn and then continue to our planned campsite.
The combined moisture in the breaths of all three of us actually sealed off all the cracks in that little camper ... I remember looking at the inside of that old wood camper shell and how the insides had a thick coat of frost over it ... well over a 1/2" in places!
I still get chills just thinking about how close we came to not making it home on our own power. In my opinion, very cold camping and a vent or window just "cracked" is not good enough.

Happy holidays and a very happy, healthy, prosperous, and SAFE New Year to everyone ... :P :P
Happy Camping & Building,
John (JC)


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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby lrrowe » Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:52 pm

These kind of stories can get sobering if you think about them. I also was in a cabin which had a bad chimney and had ignited the wood behind the fireplace. I and about 5 other work/hunting colleagues were lucky to get out of that smoldering fire alive. We all woke at 3 AM to a cabin full of smoke.
Bob

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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby AZ_Desert_Rat » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:08 pm

Hi Bob,
Glad you woke up and were able to get out ... You must of had a little help there :angel: :angel:
Happy Camping & Building,
John (JC)


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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby lrrowe » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:12 pm

Thanks....but for sure it was not because we were "angels".
Bob

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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby AZ_Desert_Rat » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:19 pm

Hmmm,
Maybe you were :o :D
Happy Camping & Building,
John (JC)


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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby MarkusMasonis » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:39 am

Might be some confusion about Carbon Monoxide (CO) vs. Carbon Dioxide (CO2).

Both are tasteless and odourless. CO is a bi-product of combustion, especially in low-Oxygen environments. CO2 is expelled when we breath. It's the presence of CO2 (not the absence of Oxygen) that causes us to "want" to take another breath. CO is the "silent killer", and can be held responsible for a lot of accidental deaths. CO2 poisoning is very rare.

So ... using a propane heater or using a wood stove indoors should all be done with caution. If the flame starts to lose Oxygen, it can produce more CO, which can harm occupants without waking them. However, if left to sleep in a sealed room, occupants will gradually increase the CO2 levels, and will wake up with headache, nausea, etc ... essentially, "wanting" another breath. Poisoning would occur long-term, but because it's so uncomfortable, it rarely happens.

Of course, cracking a window is a great idea so you don't wake up in a stuffy box. But the sealed trailer isn't as dangerous as it seems ... as long as you can open a door!

See http://www.critical-environment.com/blo ... oxide-co2/
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby rowerwet » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:26 am

You also must be aware of oxygen levels, rebreathing the same air in a confined space uses up the O2, too low of a level and you get very weak, tired, pass out.
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