7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Converting Cargo Trailers into TTTs

Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby jr9744 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:08 am

So putting the gray tank under the kitchen counter is a no go. Unless I cut a square between the cabinets, which may work. But it would still be close if I cut the hole.

Back to figuring out how to place this sump pump.

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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby jr9744 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:00 pm

After some thought, I decided to put the sump pump under the cabinet where the sink is. It'll be tight, but this will give me the space I need for the fridge. This is one con of putting the tanks inside the trailer, you lose valuable space. If I were to do it again, I would get the longer slimmer tanks and put them between one of the studs like everyone else does on the floor and somewhat under the trailer.

I took the trailer for about a 20 mile trip today to get her moving (Been months since I moved her). Ironically, I feel she handles better now with weight on her. I went up many hills and valleys, and she handles well. When I got back and looked in the trailer, everything still in place!!!

So here is a pic of the kitchen with the fridge in place and the two kitchen cabinets installed. I felt a little bummed about the face plate since I spent a lot of time on them, and they just didn't come together as I hoped. I'll use filler and some more paint to make them look finished once I figure out what the wall will be.
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I'm done for the weekend. Up next is getting that bathroom plumbing done!!!! Goal is to get the bathroom plumbing and as much as the bathroom complete as possible.
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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby McDave » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:27 am

I don't really see anything wrong with that upper face plate. Remember, the right size doors will hide most of the face plate anyway. Are you using pocket screws? Cabinet making is not easy if you are not a experienced woodworker with the proper tools. But you will get better as you go. It's hard but important to make parts precise, square and identical. One trick is to cut identical parts stacked so they are the same, even if they're wrong. So if you need a left and right side 12.5", stack two pieces of stock lined up at end and cut both in 1 shot.
Also check your mitre saw to be sure it is set square. (90 deg to the back fence) Mark your cut line with a speed square and check the blade before you cut so you are sure to cut precisely on line. The line should still be there when cut is finished but just barely. Allow for blade width.
When assembling, a jig or frame clamp helps to hold so a precise 90 can be screwed together. If cut material wont fit together nice in the jig and make a tight clean joint, touch it up with sandpaper till it does. The Pros have big machines that make all the joints and plane the wood to exact dimensions. The rest of us just do the best we can. You'll get better and better as you go. If you don't do this kind of work all the time it's tough to be perfect and precise with limited tools.

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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby jr9744 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:29 pm

@McDave You mean I won't get perfect joints like the guy shows on the YouTube video with just my kregg tool? He said I only need 5 minutes of experience, so I may go back and comment (j/k). On the next build they will be perfect.

So my goal this week is to get all the bathroom plumbing done. Including the framing and the floors in. Possibly the toilet installed also.

I figured out quickly that I would lose my pocket door if I wanted the black tank outlet to 90 degree out the bottom. I wasn't thrilled with the idea, but I felt my only choice was to go straight out.

Inside view of black tank outlet. I'll have to patch up my previous hole. I also have a hard time cutting circles. I don't want to buy a rotozip, but my jigsaw and circle drill bit things don't seem to cut it.
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Outside view featuring my pooch.
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Side view. I figure I could use a box to 'cover' it if I want in the future. I also don't see the need to tie it down as much. Seems pretty solid once I make everything permanent. May just use some of that metal bracket stuff.
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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby flboy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:22 pm

jr9744 wrote:
I figured out quickly that I would lose my pocket door if I wanted the black tank outlet to 90 degree out the bottom. I wasn't thrilled with the idea, but I felt my only choice was to go straight .


I was going to use a pocket door, but I found a nice accordion style door that works great and looks good and is super easy to install. You might consider that. You can see the one I installed on the right in the pic below.

My bathroom walls are angled also to leave needed space in kitchen and the aisle so they would not accomodate the pocket door.

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Last edited by flboy on Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Current Build CTC:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=65498
Old CTC Build (sold)
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=50647
YouTube Videos of Finished Trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FASF-x9ofMY - Interior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-pvBbyyBs - Exterior
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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby flboy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:35 pm

A thought on your black water outlet. If you will not also drain gray water from the same connection which typically flushes and cleans the real nasty junk out of the slinky hose, you may consider putting a fresh water hose connection somehwere on the output before the slinky hose connection so it can be flushed. I think they make a device that will go between the slinky hose and the twist on connector. Otherwise you really will have a "stinky slinky" :-)
This is what I am referring to:




41BgMx5v1IL.jpg
41BgMx5v1IL.jpg (29.75 KiB) Viewed 576 times





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Current Build CTC:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=65498
Old CTC Build (sold)
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=50647
YouTube Videos of Finished Trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FASF-x9ofMY - Interior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-pvBbyyBs - Exterior
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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby hankaye » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:32 pm

jr9744, Howdy;

What flboy showed works great if you are flushing out the tank. Better yet for a straight drop commode
for building up some volume of water to flush out the 'slinkey' is one of these;
https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/ele ... rs_89-8428
You can use it to flush out the tank, keeping the dump valve closed, then open it after the tank is almost
full. I find that by using a few cap fulls of a fabric softener to the empty tank before each camping trip and
adding some water will help get a cleaner first flush. Something I do once a week. 9 years of fulltime RV livin'
and no (knock on wood), problems yet.


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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby jr9744 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:23 pm

@flboy I wouldn't mind using my gray water tank to flush out the slinky, but I do like the separation of systems. I think I seen the debate on your thread at some point. Are you sure your gray/blank tank setup isn't contaminating your fresh tank in any way. I like your idea of adding a water 'hose' there and buying that item you pictured. I think I may go this route unless I'm sure the black tank won't get into my fresh tank.

I also remember thinking about your door as I was messing with the black tank. I thought about it, but there was truly no space at all even for the door to scrunch up when closed. Funny you mentioned the angled walls too, cause mines were very off square and I really didn't even notice. After I put the cabinets in, the angles became much apparent. I fixed it and squared up the walls tonight as much as I could.

@hankaye Glad you guys are bringing up the 'slinky' now and how you keep it clean. Really never something on my mind at all. With your method, it says that want uses a regular hose connection. You have a hose connection going into your black tank? Is it off the 3 inch outlet? And speaking of full, how do you know when your black tank is full? I have no sensors in there.

So working torwards my goal of getting the bathroom plumbming, flooring, and framing done, I did a few things tonight.

Squared up the bathroom wall as much as I could. It really wasn't that bad.
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Continued adding bathroom framing now that the black tank is roughed in
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The darkness outside the trailer is really bad at night. So I wired up one of the exterior lights real quick. Makes a huge difference.
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I hope to get that bathroom framing done tomorrow and the subfloor in place. Once I have this I can mount the toilet and shower. Then probably build the framing for the shower walls.
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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby flboy » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:17 am

Jr9744, I think you are referring to the system where we were discussing an option to flush the toilet with gray water. I have not installed that yet.

Above, I was referring to a common drain connection so when you connect the hose to empty the tanks, you can pull the blackwater valve first and then pull the gray water so it flushes through the drain hose last. It is a very common setup on RVs.





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viewtopic.php?f=42&t=65498
Old CTC Build (sold)
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=50647
YouTube Videos of Finished Trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FASF-x9ofMY - Interior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-pvBbyyBs - Exterior
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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby hankaye » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:40 am

jr9744, Howdy;

When you asked;

" @flboy I wouldn't mind using my gray water tank to flush out the slinky, but I do like the separation of systems. I think I seen the debate on your thread at some point. Are you sure your gray/blank tank setup isn't contaminating your fresh tank in any way. I like your idea of adding a water 'hose' there and buying that item you pictured. I think I may go this route unless I'm sure the black tank won't get into my fresh tank. "

Both Black & Gray systems should remain separate, in that you are correct. The only time they appear to
connect is at the drain connections. Both tanks have a blade valve to open for discharging the contents
of each tank into the drain line to the slinky then into the sewer system. If I remember correctly, Don was
going to attach a flush system into his black tank that would require a separate hose (with a back flow preventer),
so that he could clean out his black tank. Something like this;
https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/ele ... it_89-8445
He and anyone that uses one of these or any type of flush system should always have a separate hose dedicated
for this use so as to eliminate the chance of contamination of the fresh water system.

Movin' on ...

" @hankaye Glad you guys are bringing up the 'slinky' now and how you keep it clean. Really never something on my mind at all. With your method, it says that want uses a regular hose connection. You have a hose connection going into your black tank? Is it off the 3 inch outlet? And speaking of full, how do you know when your black tank is full? I have no sensors in there. "

OK, Yep, the flush wand is hooked up to a regular hose, again make sure that it is NOT one you use for your regular
fresh water system. With a regular straight drop commode system you can just open the drain port and insert the wand
and it will spray the interior of the tank to help the stubborn stuff find the exit. You can also close the exit (blade valve),
and fill the tank while loosening the tenacious grip of the stubborn stuff. Remember in the black tank excess water is your
friend. The volume of water (or other liquids ie. re-cycled adult beverages), is what creates the flow for proper drainage.

In the design of my RV (home), there is a Black tank flush system installed. Just like the one that flboy (Don), has planned
for his. Entirely separate from the regular fresh water system and adorned with vacuum breakers aka back-flow preventers.
I have a separate water hose "Just for it!"

How to tell how full your Black tank is ... well with a straight drop you can actually see the level or you can learn the sound
that it makes when the water falling in makes a 'certain sound', make a dip stick, or it over-flows ...

Hope this has answered some of your questions. If not then ask more and keep on asking.

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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby jr9744 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:27 am

@flboy, hankaye Thanks for the knowledge. You both have given me a lot to think about on how to finalize the black and gray water draining. I didn't realize the gray tank also had a blade (seems this one is 1 1/2 inches outlet?). It does make sense how you would flush both gray and black through one outlet. I have to think through it some more, but it may be complex at this point to get both outlets draining through one outlet.

Question though, when you go to an rv site, do you empty both the black tank waste and gray water with the same slinky hose into the same place on the campground?

I have been steadily making progress, but haven't found the time to post. I underestimated the effort to do the plumbing and making the whole system work. I am getting closer, and have 'tested' the shower and sink drain and they seem to drain well. I hope to have the bathroom done this upcoming week and the gray tank operational.

Here is a close up of what the shower drain turned out to be. It took some time to line up the main outlet and cut the wholes in the already built frame.
Image

Different shot of the shower plumbing
Image

Shower floor framing finally done and screwed down into place. Plywood floor cut into place.
Image

You can see the space I'm dealing with in the bathroom. Not very much. I was considering a sink, but may leave that for a future project. May just leave the water plumbing in place for now.
Image

You can see here that I framed in the shower. I'm still deciding on how to lay the board. I was going to run underlayment (1/8 thick) and then FRP on top of that. But I wonder if I even need the underlayment?
Image

Here is what the under the kitchen plumbing ended up being. I noticed many people just drain their sink and shower directly to the ground, so I gave myself the option to do so as well. Either drain to the ground or go to the gray tank. The main downside of my under sink setup is that it takes up so much valuable space. On my next go, I would do this differently to get that space back.
Image

Plumbing ran in walls for cold water and hot water.
Image

New showerhead. It seems to review well.
Image

So my plan is to really get this bathroom plumbing and under sink plumbing final. I still have to glue some things together and test the sump pump and water drainage to it. Once I get through this, I'll start the gray tank and my first window.

A random question, how are you all attaching your black tank vent pipe to your black tank? Just using the pvc plumbing cement? Also, Do you use glue under the toilet flange that connects to the black tank? And do you just cut a hole in the black tank and pop that flange in?
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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby flboy » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:39 am

Jr9744, Yes, most RV's will empty tanks from one hose via two blade valves; however, there is no rule that I am aware of. You could drain your black water and then move the hose over to another outlet and then flush with the gray water. Just need to be careful or it could be messy.

I attached some pics below to give you some ideas and it may help you recover some space under the sink since the flex hose can be creatively routed. I struggled with the PVC pipe for a while then decided to go with flex hose which easily bends around corners and I can fish it under my shower and etc... I used the flex hose after the traps to run the drain lines under the shower pedestal, around corners and at odd angles under cabinets and then joined them at the gray water input I drilled in the floor. It seems to work very well after I got the venting correct.

Note, you may want to put in an air admittance valve after your sink trap. When you empty your tank, the vacuum may pull the water from your trap and then you will have gasses possibly back up into the camper. Also, your pipes will "gurgle" and drain slowly as they try to get air to replace the water draining down the pipes (may also pull water out of your traps). Think of it like the vent on your gas can when you are pouring it. Without that vent, gas comes out slowly then gasps for air . You can see the little black vents I have in the pipes right after after the traps (downstream).

Image

Image


The Vanity trap and vent.

Image

Image

This is a close up of the hose and what I joined them with. I think the white flex hose comes in 6' sections with the non-flex pieces are every foot so you can trim the hose and still seal it off with a hose clamp on a fitting.

Image
Last edited by flboy on Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:38 am, edited 5 times in total.
Don (Flboy)

Current Build CTC:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=65498
Old CTC Build (sold)
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=50647
YouTube Videos of Finished Trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FASF-x9ofMY - Interior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-pvBbyyBs - Exterior
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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby flboy » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:00 am

A random question, how are you all attaching your black tank vent pipe to your black tank? Just using the pvc plumbing cement? Also, Do you use glue under the toilet flange that connects to the black tank? And do you just cut a hole in the black tank and pop that flange in?

I used a rubber flex joint since the black water tank already had a vent flange .... however, in the absence of that and if you have to cut your own vent holes, just use the rubber grommets to stick the PVC pipes into. It will seal well. It is not under any pressure in the tanks so a good rubber press fit is good enough for the vents. I did my gray water inlets and vent this way also. On the black water tank, I used a 3" grommet that the toilet flange pressed into. No Glue.

My tanks are under the floor, but you can see the 2" rubber grommet off to the side in one picture... then I presses the 2" PVC into the grommets and they seal off. Once the PVC is in, you can connect up any way you want.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Black water connection. 3" Grommet not shown... but same as the 2" grommet.

Image

Toilet flange presses into rubber grommet. Make sure to have the sizes correct. It should be a snug fit.

Image


Image
Don (Flboy)

Current Build CTC:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=65498
Old CTC Build (sold)
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=50647
YouTube Videos of Finished Trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FASF-x9ofMY - Interior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-pvBbyyBs - Exterior
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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby hankaye » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:22 am

jr9744, Howdy;

Good progress!

Question though, when you go to an rv site, do you empty both the black tank
waste and gray water with the same slinky hose into the same place on the campground?


Yes, most RVers just use the 1 hose for draining the tanks and just one hole in the ground per site.
Also, most Gray water drains are 1 1/2" as there should not be any large clumps of "stuff" passing through.
Kind of intuitive.

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Re: 7x7x16 V Nose Cargo Trailer Conversion, First Build

Postby Padilen » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:03 pm

On manufactured TT's the grey and black connect and use one drain. The grey connect with Y's and have slide valves, like the 3"black drain valve.

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I misread question, and only saw last OP's post. After posting I then saw all the previous reply.
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