Made in China!!!!

[mskobier]

All,
I just returned from my not so favorite big box home center. I needed to purchase some thin plywood for the ceiling of my CT conversion. I looked around until I found what at first I thought was 1/4" ACX plywood. As I was pulling the sheets down, I noticed the price was good and the dimensions. It was 4' x 8' x 5mm? I thought the 5mm was strange, but just figured it was just another step forward for the US to metric system crowd. The price was prety good for the apparent quality. I checked out, loaded up and headed home. As I was unloading the plywood, I happened to notice the bar code sticker on the back of the plywood. I must tell you I was somewhat taken aback. The sticker said "Made In China'! Since when did the local home center start selling plywood made over seas? Now I am located in the Pacific Northwest. The mountains all around my area are full of trees, much of which is being or has been logged. The really bad part of this whole story is that the plywood appeared to be of much better quality than what I normally see. Both side were mostly free of knots and both sides could easily be fine finished! I must say that right now I am very much irritated. The one product that I thought should be labled "Made In the USA" was not. Now do not get me wrong. I am not anti China. I just think that some products should be made right here in the good old USA! With the current state of the economy, we really do not have a lot of manufacturing left in the US. I know there are quite a number of people in the lumber industry out of work due to the down turn in the construction industry. Then to find that the lumber being sold locally wasn't made here, is just plain wrong!

Enough of my rant. Admins, if this needs to be deleted, please do so.



Mitch

[asianflava]

Been discussed a while back

http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=12269

When I was shopping for a saw, the only ones in my price range were made in China. The only ones that were made in US were well into the 4 digit price range. As much as I wanted to get one, I couldn't justify the cost.

[pete42]

I saw a show on TV the other night some Wendy's, which was started 50 miles from my house by Dave Thomas, when you go through the drive through your order is taken in Florida by a call center they use VOIP to send the order back to the wendy's not all mostly on east coast.
can India be far behind?
so plywood from china I have heard isn't the same thickness as plywood made in USA.

[Shadow Catcher]

If you Google Chinese plywood you will see a list of problem after problem from high formaldehyde (poisonous) to warping in truly strange ways, to inclusions (in one case metal that ruined a blade).
There are certain things I would buy from China (in some cases you don't really have a choice) and others I would not . There are ASTM standards that I seriously doubt they follow.

[vreihen]

If you Google Chinese plywood you will see a list of problem after problem from high formaldehyde (poisonous) to warping in truly strange ways, to inclusions (in one case metal that ruined a blade).

Google Chinese sheet rock for horror stories about people who have had to leave their houses, and homeowner's insurance that won't pay to rip the stuff out.....

[djsrtr]

just had to put in my $.02.

I do not buy anything from China. Even if you forget about America needing the business, think about eveything bad China has sent to us.

Chinese Drywall with toxins in it, Chinese toys for children with lead, just to name a few. I am not prejudiced but look at it this way, they do not meet the safety standards of the USA. Until they do, we will not know what we are getting. The Trade agreements that OUR elected officials keep passing are one sided. Look at Mexican produce and Ecoli.

Sorry, had to say it.

[mskobier]

Unfortunately, I did not see the made in china sticker until I was unloading it in my garage. I do realize the 5mm plywood is ever so much thinner than true 1/4"(.053" difference). But for my purposes, it would not have been an issue. This plywood is just to cover the foam insulation on the ceiling of my CT.

I haven't decided wether I am going to return it or not. There is a cost factor involved. first the cost of the actual 1/4" was a few dollars more per sheet. Second the 50 miles round trip to the store and back at the current cost of gas ($3.19/gal) at 14 miles per gallon in my truck needs to be factored in. So far an additional $45.00, I get the pleasure of taking the plywood back and exchanging it for US made. That doesn't make economical sence at this point. It just aggrivated me that I didn't see it before I purchased it.

I guess I will just take it as a lesson learned, and check the stickers on any further lumber I buy.

I never dreamed I would see the day when I would have to check the country of origin on the lumber products I purchase. We are truely in deep dodo!

Mitch

[doug hodder]

Welcome to the global economy....as long as people keep buying the Chi-ply, or any other goods...it will be here. Doug

[Engineer Guy]

A few decades ago, we watched Logs being loaded onto Ships near Coos Bay OR. The Factory Ships went out to Int'l water and returned to unload finished Plywood, processing during the entire transit. Foreign Nationals work these Ships for up 1 year-long 'shifts'. The Ships are owned by, and registered in, other Countries; wherever Regulatory and Tax structures are the most favorable. Today, Phillippine Forests [amongst others] are leveled and the Factory Ship output of Plywood is sold here. Even more murky, a label might say 'Canada', but the product can be Canadian Logs processed at sea.

Factory Ships also catch, process, freeze and unload on U.S. shores various types of Seafood. They are best described as floating Cities that generate their own power, and do not incur the cost overhead infrastructure of Trucking and Railroads [or associated other Salaries], etc.. As with Cruise Ships, Factory Ships are manufactured in Brazil, Dubai, The Netherlands or wherever...

Read here about counterfeit Amish Furniture Ships:

Furniture Factory Ship

Not an example of a huge Ship, but huge ones are out there. Scroll down to read:

Concrete Factory Ship

By operating in Int'l waters, these Ships avoid Taxes, Regulations and Work Rules, etc..

I visited some Int'l places where U.S. Vehicle subcomponents are made, like Alternators and Windshields [even pre-NAFTA]. This reality is what the Window Stickers disclosing U.S. vs. Foreign Vehicle content are all about.

Some Foreign Factories I've visited/trained in are real eye openers. I rolled up my Sleeves and tucked my Tie inside my Shirt first thing to avoid getting sucked into Machinery. For every China-based News Headline about Lead; Melamine-poisoned Formula or Feed; and other such topics, I'm afraid there's numerous other jarring stories that are never known about here.

The scandal of last week was that China had obtained high speed MagLev Train Technology from leading Companies abroad. Over the past decade, they had 'developed' - and are now selling - their 'own', 'different' competing Train technology. It's the Amish Furniture story 'ethics' above revisited, but their much-lower selling costs reflect no overhead in MagLev Development, Prototypes, Testing and Certification. Patent Infringement Lawsuits by Int'l MagLev Patent owners in Int'l Courts will take a decade or more with no enforcement of the outcome practical.

[caseydog]

Welcome to the global economy....as long as people keep buying the Chi-ply, or any other goods...it will be here. Doug

Yup! Just follow the money. If consumers here can save a few bucks, they will buy Chinese products, and if the big box stores can make a higher profit on Chinese products, they will stock them and promote them to consumers. If a corporation can have something made in China by workers making less than a dollar per hour, they will have their products made in China.

We all want good jobs that pay well, but also want to buy things for the lowest possible price.

CD

[GPW]

Factory ships ... I wonder where they dump their waste... overboard ...

There goes all the Fish !!! Can't eat Money !!!!

[Engineer Guy]

When you consider the small fraction of both surface area and humanity that all Ships constitute - vs. Land-based humanity - the ~20% estimate in this Article that Ships and Oil Platforms contribute to the trash problem is disproportionately staggering:

Pacific Ocean Floating Garbage Dump

The West Coast of Scotland is the 'first' thing much Atlantic trash hits; it's the only thing between there and Canada. Our Beachcoming while RVing there involved sorting through an amazing amount of garbage in otherwise-pristine, remote areas. Sure, there were some Water Jugs, etc., but much more Industrial-related 'stuff'. Plastic wrap from palletized goods, etc...

I'm not banging any drums here; only pointing out the literal 'dirty little secret' of Factory Ship production all of us encounter in simple purchases at Big Box Stores. Factory Ships burn what they want in Incinerators; no costly Emissions Standards to comply with on open Seas.

[stumphugger]

The Good And Bad Of Exports

I'm a timber worker. Lately, the log market has been going up in price. It has been dismally low until now. One thing that affects the price is export. If the export price goes up, the price of logs that cannot be legally exported may go up. Sounds like that may be happening now.

Logs that cannot be exported come off the federal and state (I think, need to look it up) lands. Export logs come off privately owned ground.

I guess I'm saying that I don't like having wood processed overseas, but then it does help the loggers stay in business or get back to work. Things are sure complicated.

One of the big box stores that imports plywood from China, is a major customer for our local lumber mill.

[mskobier]

Stumphugger,
I understand it is a very complicated issue. In my opinion, it just seems counter productive. Yes, I do understand that sending the lumber offshore to be turned into useable products generates some jobs for the lumber industry. It would also make more sense to harvest the trees and send it to our own lumber mills to be turned into useable products. That would generate even more jobs locally. I know it is not going to happen, but I still do not think it is right to be exposting desparetly need jobs. Our economy is going down the drain, and there does not seem to be anything we can do about it. I do try to buy American made products when I can find them. Go to any tool store and try and find even a name brand that was made in USA.

Ok, I'll get off my rant.

All have a great day,
Mitch

[woytovich]

If you want to stop the shift of production to overseas (on the sea) facilities then you have to stop going to Walmart and the like to buy overseas manufactured goods.

My mother, in one breath, complains about jobs going out of the country and in the next she is telling me about the great deal she got on sneakers at Kmart. When I point out the hypocrisy in her words and actions she says "But the sneakers made in the US are WAY too expensive... I would never pay that much for a pair of sneakers."

US goods cost more for many reasons: health & safety of workers, unions, taxes... to name the obvious.

If you want the jobs to stay here you have to buy the goods made here.

Mark