Its sort of mine!

[flboy]

Our hot humid weather just broke. It's going to be about 10* cooler and less humid. Maybe I don't need AC after all.


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Isn't your two weeks of summer just about over there?

[Padilen]

I can hope it is ! But that 2 weeks is usually a little later. The hot humid was to fast and to much of a change. Seems like it was 58* one day and 84* the next. With about 80-90% humidity.
But the rush to buy AC's has left little to pick from!
I'm going to work on a final place & securing my fridge tomorrow. Plan on running over to friends saw mill and getting some lumber, too. AC is still a .


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[Padilen]

Yesterday, I found some scrap pieces of lumber. Made a stand for fridge. Bolted rear of fridge to it and screwed it to floor. I'm thinking of adding a brace to the wall. Originally the fridge was not going to be mounted but a "take with" when camping for more than a weekend. But since I have a generator it's now IN. Portable AC is also IN. Have yet to check if it now interferes with kayak loading. My plastic drawers that I liked by door still do not have a spot. All of this is temporary so I can still use my TAZ. I have not thought of a way to mod for different AC. And after studying finances I can't swing it. If any of the other AC's sold then I'd look for a 5,6000 BTU. Being able to use TAZ is more important than AC. It was only 68-70 yesterday! No AC needed 50's over night, nice sleeping weather.

Now an AC question. I've read that AC's(window/portable) are not designed to handle more than 15-20* differential. I've read claims of 90*+ outside and 65* inside. What is truthful don't expect more than 15-20 or can 25-30 be possible?



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[McDave]

Cubic footage and building efficiency, ie insulation/ loss/mass play a big part in that equation. Remember that those AC's are not intended for RV use, But then again cargo trailers were not designed to be RV's. It's the journey into the unknown that makes you a Pioneer. Sometimes you eat the Bear,... well, you know the rest.

McDave

[Padilen]

It's a brisk 66* according to app. I have 64* on my thermometer and 65* in TAZ.
McDave, I've had bear meat.


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[Hader]

"Now an AC question. I've read that AC's(window/portable) are not designed to handle more than 15-20* differential. I've read claims of 90*+ outside and 65* inside. What is truthful don't expect more than 15-20 or can 25-30 be possible? "

We had a 5k window unit that we installed in a not-so-tight 22' Hi-Lo (the roof unit was to much noise). The window unit did just fine in South Texas!

[Padilen]

"Now an AC question. I've read that AC's(window/portable) are not designed to handle more than 15-20* differential. I've read claims of 90*+ outside and 65* inside. What is truthful don't expect more than 15-20 or can 25-30 be possible? "

We had a 5k window unit that we installed in a not-so-tight 22' Hi-Lo (the roof unit was to much noise). The window unit did just fine in South Texas!

Just trying to understand why. Is it dry heat apposed to high humidity and high heat. I know air conditioner's have to "condition" the air - remove moisture. There is also the difference of trying to cool something already at or above the outside temp. As opposed to trying to keep or maintain a certain temp.
As I've said I do not have home AC but I have used a window unit a few times. My last attempt I found it to have an odd noise. The noise, irritating my tinnitus, made me shut it off. Now I know what the noise was. All it took was a recall on my portable and a discussion with Don. The noise is the condensation hitting the fan. So I actually have more concerns swapping the AC than placement. I have to be able to withstand the difference in noises. My portable while not quiet is for some reason not irritating. Just a related story. "Everyone" with a TW adds a copper elbow. Placed on the tip of exhaust it directs exhaust noise down. I did this "mod" over the winter, whistle doing some other things to my TW. First start up I had an odd noise that bothered me. After about a month with bike having no issues I was stumped. After all the discussing on AC's and the sling noise, I pulled the tip off. Forgot about it. Went for a ride one day and no odd noise.


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[flboy]

I know it is true that home Air Conditioner "systems" are designed to cool to approximately a 20 degree differential from outside and achieve ~55% humidity (assuming humidity is higher than that). The design of the AC "system" is dependent on many things to include the size of the AC in BTU's, the area and volume to cool as well as the insulation/windows and etc.. So likewise, I'd expect a window unit to cool depending on the "system" which includes all those factors and assuming proper installation. Some may do better than 20... some will do worse... it all depends.. You should see the considerations for a home AC installation when they are sizing the units. In Florida.. they are putting in 2.5Ton units (1Ton is ~ 12,5000 BTU) where they use to do 3.5 ton units (same size houses) based on factors that affect cooling load to include the climate; typical outdoor temperature; the typical outdoor humidity; the level of insulation in the house; the amount of air leakage in the house; the amount of south, east and west facing glass in the house; whether this glass is single-, double- or triple-glazed; whether the glass is a low-emissivity glass or gas-filled; and whether window treatments (curtains or blinds) are kept closed or open. Other factors include the amount of shading from trees, roof overhang, awnings or buildings and how much heat is generated in the house by the people and equipment inside. So, when people say a 20 degree differential... I think that is a rule of thumb for a properly designed "system". You can't just throw out comparisons based on BTU size because that is only a part of the equation and you need to compare "apples to apples". When somebody says they have an AC that will cool their trailer like a meat locker in the peak of summer... I immediately think "oversized for the job" or "sealed up so tight and so well insulated that it is unhealthy (really)".

In direct sun with ~94 degree summer weather (peak)... my CTC AC is working hard to keep a 20 degree differential... there are still some things I can do to improve that... but my 6000 BTU unit is at the borderline of being too small for my particular size CTC design factors.... which I chose in design tradeoffs for running and startup power consumption reasons and cooling load factors... When I replace someday... I will go with 8000 BTU to give some margin and not sacrifice much on additional running power.

In reality.... the peak summer is only for few months and the CTC is normally only cooling in temps in the mid 80's for the remainder of the year... so for an "average" perspective... it is probably a good size... Also even in peak summer, peak temperature is only a few hours in the afternoon.. Night time is always in the low 80's or high 70's. The AC is working lightly then. Those things need to be considered. Do you design for 10% to 20% of the time or the 80% and live with tradeoffs that can save you alot. Just thoughts to consider... must be the engineer in me... I know.

[Padilen]

Yup I know about engineers you all have a different mind set.
The last 2 nights have been bad ( days too) but cooler nights are forecasted. We've had damaging rain fall and lightning strikes. 7" of rain fall in just 10 hours south of me. We got 1-3 in that same time frame. About the same the previous night here also.
In short everything is wet, either from the rain or the humidity.
For now I'm keeping the portable. I have ideas for changes but need money for them. Plus I want to be able to hookup and go the summer. Few things to bolt down and TAZ is back out there. I have a few little jobs and bottling Monday and Tuesday. Then I'm going somewhere somehow.


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[flboy]

BTW... on the way back from the Dive Shop today I stopped by Outdoor Recreation World RV Center (a mile from my house) for the first time... just to look at campers and get ideas and etc.. I am so glad I built my own. They have these ~ 24ft. $49,000 campers they mark down to $39,000 so folks think they are getting a good deal, and for the most part, they are equipped with low end appliances and although they look nice, they just feel flimsy with the construction. I go into the bathroom area and already trim is coming off the ceiling, door handles feel loose... I just couldn't imagine them holding up very long. Everything on the outside is caulked and windows and etc. stand out a good 1/8 to 1/4 inch due to the corrugated aluminum skins... just asking for a place for water intrusions... The only good thing I could say is they look nice.

They had a few 18 footers for <$20,000... I don't think they'd last for more than 4 years... I'd be afraid to take one down a long washboard dirt road.. I guess they make them for paved roads and improved campgrounds and only being lightly used a few times a year and then parked under an awning? Glad I built my own..

[Padilen]

I have lots of experience with TT and mobile homes. I wanted to do my own for years. In the late 60's early 70's my family was in a camping club. A few had home built rigs. Not like tears or cargos. More like modular pop ups. Utility trailer with box and canvas or a tent attached. 60's&70's TT are still better built than today's mass produced one's. Heck some 70's Winnebago's are still here where I live being used seasonally.
I'm happy with mine, imperfect as it is ! I do another and another as I get more ideas for one. Only if I did I'd have $ and good health to start with. I have no clue how I did some of the work. Amazing when I look at how bad my heart was beating what I did. It kind of pisses me off when people say "my dr said to stop riding " or what ever. They don't know it, but their life just went from being worth the living to over.


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[Hader]

[quote="flboy"] "They have these ~ 24ft. $49,000 campers they mark down to $39,000 so folks think they are getting a good deal" ... "They had a few 18 footers for <$20,000..."

A friend of mine bought one of them fancy-looking traps for 80K 4 years ago. He went to Ohio last winter, said there was snow coming in through the slide-outs, and could hardly keep the stove lit when it was windy. Everything was less durable than Dollhouse furniture. He's now wanting to sell it for 35K.

Padilen is right about the older builds.

[m.colley]

"Now an AC question. I've read that AC's(window/portable) are not designed to handle more than 15-20* differential. I've read claims of 90*+ outside and 65* inside. What is truthful don't expect more than 15-20 or can 25-30 be possible? "

We had a 5k window unit that we installed in a not-so-tight 22' Hi-Lo (the roof unit was to much noise). The window unit did just fine in South Texas!

Hader,
Yes, 15-20 degree diff is common, even in site built homes per Manual J load calcs. Truthful depends on who you ask. About the only way to get a larger differential is by cutting your"heat gain" to next to nothing & keeping you humidity levels to very low levels. In AC mode, heat gain & humidity infiltration control pretty much control your differential. Thats were variable speed blowers come in. They will allow you to lower your fan speed to run a colder evaporator coil and pull off more moisture/humidity while not running so low that your evap coil freezes. Some higher end window units actually have a dehumidification mode that simulates this.

In designing HVAC systems, Manual J allows you to set your design parameters like OA temps, differentials etc. Manual J then tells you how much latent vs sensible btu's you need to achieve your design. This where the fun comes in because MOST manufacturers won't warranty equipment that is mis-matched or doesn't meet THEIR specs, so your stuck using their equipment whether it meets your needs or not.

Thursday I had to design a custom refrigeration system for a local "beverage company" that builds "on site self contained event trailers" (portable beer keg coolers". A 4x8 cargo trailer with one inch thick foamed walls, 2" foamed floor and roof sandwiched between aluminum skins. It had to be able to maintain 35 degrees inside even if its 100 degrees outside and it had to be able to run on a portable generator. Our Cooler load calc program wouldn't recognize the parameters so I had to do alot of math. It took over 3 hours and mismatching equipment from 3 different manufacturers to come up with a combination that would WORK. YES in this case it takes a 65-70 degree differential to keep that beer cold in those conditions.


Martin

[Padilen]

"Now an AC question. I've read that AC's(window/portable) are not designed to handle more than 15-20* differential. I've read claims of 90*+ outside and 65* inside. What is truthful don't expect more than 15-20 or can 25-30 be possible? "

We had a 5k window unit that we installed in a not-so-tight 22' Hi-Lo (the roof unit was to much noise). The window unit did just fine in South Texas!

Hader,
Yes, 15-20 degree diff is common, even in site built homes per Manual J load calcs. Truthful depends on who you ask. About the only way to get a larger differential is by cutting your"heat gain" to next to nothing & keeping you humidity levels to very low levels. In AC mode, heat gain & humidity infiltration control pretty much control your differential. Thats were variable speed blowers come in. They will allow you to lower your fan speed to run a colder evaporator coil and pull off more moisture/humidity while not running so low that your evap coil freezes. Some higher end window units actually have a dehumidification mode that simulates this.

In designing HVAC systems, Manual J allows you to set your design parameters like OA temps, differentials etc. Manual J then tells you how much latent vs sensible btu's you need to achieve your design. This where the fun comes in because MOST manufacturers won't warranty equipment that is mis-matched or doesn't meet THEIR specs, so your stuck using their equipment whether it meets your needs or not.

Thursday I had to design a custom refrigeration system for a local "beverage company" that builds "on site self contained event trailers" (portable beer keg coolers". A 4x8 cargo trailer with one inch thick foamed walls, 2" foamed floor and roof sandwiched between aluminum skins. It had to be able to maintain 35 degrees inside even if its 100 degrees outside and it had to be able to run on a portable generator. Our Cooler load calc program wouldn't recognize the parameters so I had to do alot of math. It took over 3 hours and mismatching equipment from 3 different manufacturers to come up with a combination that would WORK. YES in this case it takes a 65-70 degree differential to keep that beer cold in those conditions.


Martin

Where'd you put the AC unit at?


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[m.colley]

In the front nose as high as possible. The trailers they build have flat fronts on them so placement isn't hard. Getting the right equipment is the tricky part.

There are alot of people down here in the south that are using window AC's to build cheap deer coolers/processing rooms, because they don't want to spend the money that a typical refrigeration system costs. Hacking into the AC thermostat and replacing it with a low temp refrigeration tstat is about all their having to do.



Martin