7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Converting Cargo Trailers into TTTs

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby Lanval » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:40 pm

@flboy are you a ham operator. Noticed the radio looked like a dual band VHF/UHF
Lanval
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:26 pm

Lanval wrote:@flboy are you a ham operator. Noticed the radio looked like a dual band VHF/UHF


Yes I am and that is a dual band VHF/UHF I keep in the CTC. KE4EVL is my call. I also run portable HF Ops in my CTC with my Yaeau FT-991A I recently acquired. Previously I was using an IC-706MKII. I have a portable 10/20/40/80M vertical with a loading coil I can use and various home brew wire antennas I can throw up in the trees. Good fun when I am not riding.

Here is a recent pic of the HF rig in use while camping and the HF vertical deployed in my backyard while testing it out.



Image


Image



Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Last edited by flboy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:54 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
User avatar
flboy
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 4218
Images: 378
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:31 pm

Finally installed the relay that runs the ramp lights when I put the truck in reverse. It is lower right of the fuse panel. The manual switch works also. They are in parallel.

Image

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
User avatar
flboy
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 4218
Images: 378
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 6:13 pm
Top

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby StrongFeather » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:39 pm

Hey Don,

I've been planning the electrical side of my build lately and your build journal has been very helpful. Nice trailer, BTW.

My plan is to have three power sources to charge my trailer's house batteries - shore power (probably via a 1000W Renogy Inverter/Charger), solar (to be added later) and the Tow Vehicle. I like the simplicity of your solenoid method, but I'm curious if you considered other options before deciding on what you ended up with. I'm not sure I want to run the heavy gauge wires on my wife's minivan. I don't recall ever seeing the charging amperage numbers, so I'm curious what you've seen.

I'm kind of leaning towards spending some coin on a CTEK D250 and powering it through the 10AWG on the 7-pin. The advantage (other than not running the heavy gauge wires) is that I won't have to also buy a solar charger controller when I add solar panels, nor will I need a solenoid or battery isolator under the hood. Also, the CTEK is a "smart" charger, whereas there seems to be some opinion out there that alternators aren't a great way to charge deep cycle batteries <shrug>. The disadvantage is that the batteries would charge slower than a direct connection to the alternator. My other thought is to use a solar charge controller (powered from the TV instead of a PV array), but the opinions on whether this works are basically 50/50.

Thanks for your input, Don.

:beer:
Steve
Build Journal viewtopic.php?f=50&t=71138
Composite Panel Construction Technique viewtopic.php?f=21&t=71192

If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
~Red Green
User avatar
StrongFeather
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 174
Images: 30
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:38 am
Top

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:03 am

Hi Steve and thanks. I did seriously consider the Sterling BB1230 and I have also heard that charging from the tow vehicle (TV) is not ideal for deep cycle batteries.

I can currently charge via shore power or generator with my 50A Powermax charger /converter and I have 500W of solar also. The TV connection for me is meant as a backup in case of Powermax failure and poor solar conditions (very rare circumstances), so I wanted to test it out before I spent the $278 on the Sterling BB1230 which is ideal based on what I have read. If I end up getting that, I still can use the wiring I just installed... even with the relay. I'd just connect it in the CTC between the wire incoming from the TV and the 12vdc bussbar and retain the ability to bypass the Sterling also if it failed.

As for charging from the alternator, I have not actually tested the system, so I do not know what the charge current will be. I am assuming it won't be greater than 50A and more like 30A max.. I will be testing all that out in a few weeks as I pull to Bike Week. I am going to run the battery bank down to about 70%, disconnect solar charger, and see what happens as I tow to Daytona which is about an hour and a half away.

I will let you know how it works.

Good luck with your system. You may look into the Sterling BB1230 which may also meet your needs for charging from the TV and managing solar. In my case, it would just be for the TV and the DC to DC smart charging that it performs. For now, I am going to see how this works without it since it is not my primary charge source.

The CTEK smart charger you mentioned also looks nice, but I know nothing about it. Seems similar to the Sterling BB1230?

Also, the solar controller connected to Alternator is not a good idea from my third hand knowledge. Not meant for that and the Solar array puts out anywhere from 15v to 18V depending on sunlight. I have not tried this myself, but I believe others have and do not recommend. After voltage drop from 13.5 V all the way to the TV, the charger
may see only about 12.5vdc or less (depending on load current) which is very low as solar cells go and may shut down the controller. An MPPT may try to do something.. albeit low. Also, the Alt. Regulator may shut down current if not matched well..



Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Last edited by flboy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
User avatar
flboy
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 4218
Images: 378
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 6:13 pm
Top

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby StrongFeather » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:24 pm

Thanks for the response, Don. I’ll definitely look into the Sterling. Enjoy bike week. Looking forward to the results.

Steve


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Build Journal viewtopic.php?f=50&t=71138
Composite Panel Construction Technique viewtopic.php?f=21&t=71192

If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
~Red Green
User avatar
StrongFeather
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 174
Images: 30
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:38 am
Top

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:36 pm

StrongFeather wrote:Thanks for the response, Don. I’ll definitely look into the Sterling. Enjoy bike week. Looking forward to the results.

Steve


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sure... the Sterling is used alot in the Marine world as I understand it and has a very good reputation in terms of function and quality. A few on this forum actually use them as you intend. I may end up with one depending on my test results.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
User avatar
flboy
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 4218
Images: 378
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 6:13 pm
Top

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:26 pm

Steve, I did a little reading on that CTek DC to DC charger. I think that may have better use than the Sterling. I was wrong about the Sterling 1230 being used with Solar. It does not mention it. The Ctek mentions solar and wind and is a smart charger.

In either case, they will do the TV to RV job... Ctek Smartpass 12 appears to do more.

I may go that route myself once I see if this Alternator direct method with heavy gauge wire is any good. It is not something to use on a normal basis for sure whereas the Ctek and Sterling are.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
User avatar
flboy
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 4218
Images: 378
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 6:13 pm
Top

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby featherliteCT1 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:32 pm

[/quote][quote="flboy"]
I may go that route myself once I see if this Alternator direct method with heavy gauge wire is any good.

I am anxious to hear if that Alternator direct method will work ... I installed and use the CTEK 250S method
featherliteCT1
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:54 am
Location: Southern Indiana
Top

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:49 pm

featherliteCT1 wrote:I am anxious to hear if that Alternator direct method will work ... I installed and use the CTEK 250S method



How does the CTEK D250S work for you? Would you spend the money again. There are e few CTEK models and they are confusing as to the capabilities. For instance, I have a 430aH battery bank and the CTEK D250SA 12-20 says it Charges batteries up to 110AH and Maintains larger batteries up to 160 aH. The there is the CTEK 40-185 SmartPass 120 A Energy Management Unit that does up to 800aH but says Combining the use of the D250SA Dual ensures optimal battery charging by managing energy transfer.. so I am confused for some reason.

The Sterling 30A model does not ndicate how big the battery bank can be.. but I am assuming it makes a difference?
Last edited by flboy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
User avatar
flboy
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 4218
Images: 378
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 6:13 pm
Top

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby featherliteCT1 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:29 pm

flboy wrote:
featherliteCT1 wrote:I am anxious to hear if that Alternator direct method will work ... I installed and use the CTEK 250S method



How does the CTEK 250S work for you? Would you spend the money again. There are e few CTEK models and they are confusing as to the capabilities.


Actually, it is the CTEK D250S ... I like it a lot. I like the fact that it has a thermocouple cord so that the temperature is compensated, the fact that it absorbs at 14.4 volts and that it floats at 13.2 volts. The MPPT solar charger is a bonus. It was pricey but worth it to me.
Last edited by featherliteCT1 on Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
featherliteCT1
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:54 am
Location: Southern Indiana
Top

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:40 pm

With all this discussion and research and work I have already put in, I have got to see what the 225A Alternator in my F150 will do before I invest in DC to DC charger that may rarely be used. If I can get the battery bank to 80% with the Alternator and then it kicks into Absorb mode ... the solar panels will get it to 100% if needed as environment changes on the road and then between the Solar and Converter/Battery Charger via Shore or Generator, the proper charging cycles will be applied regularly to include the Equalization cycle. There's so much conflicting information out there and many opinions. Going to figure it out first hand for my specific setup. I understand the charging theory and things do not have to be perfect.... but adequate without degrading either the batteries or charging system in my truck.

I will run an experiment this weekend instead of waiting to travel to Daytona in early March for Bike Week. I am going to take my 430aH bank down to ~60-70% by running the AC for a few hours off the inverter. Then I will disconnect the solar panels by popping the breaker. Then pull my truck around back and hook it up. I will be able to measure the voltage and charge current at the CTC via the Victron Battery monitor and I will have a Voltmeter on the battery in the truck. I should get a good idea whether the Alternator can get to a bulk charge state with the cable losses and etc. or if it will just get to an Absorb state which will be much lower current and take a long time.

I am more concerned what the max current will be if I do get enough voltage to achieve a bulk charge. I cannot exceed 50A for long and the circuit is protected at 75A. I will put a thermocouple on the batteries also to see how much their temp changes also.

This would be a typical scenario, or at least the scenario I can anticipate, and if I can pull a bulk charge for a short period without exceeding capacity of 6ga wire and then go to into absorption... I should be able to get to 80% or better charge easily on a longer drive and will have no need for the DC to DC charger. The data won't lie.

We will see. If the results are not good, I will invest in the Sterling 1230 or CTEK 250S. Both cost about the same and they are proven to work and designed for the application specifically.
Last edited by flboy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
User avatar
flboy
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 4218
Images: 378
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 6:13 pm
Top

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby featherliteCT1 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:48 pm

Well said … great strategy … looking forward to your report!
featherliteCT1
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:54 am
Location: Southern Indiana
Top

Tow Vehicle Charging House Batteries - System Test

Postby flboy » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:02 pm

Well, I ran a test with the new Tow Vehicle (TV) to Cargo Trailer Conversion (CTC) charging system which is basically a continuous duty relay to switch the TV Alternator circuit to the CTC Battery Bank through 6ga wires and automatically disconnect when the TV motor is shut off. Of course, all the proper fusing and etc. in place. (Note: TV is an F150 with a 225A Alternator and CTC Battery Bank is ~430Ah @ 12VDC).

Conclusion for my Truck and Battery bank: it works great, and I see no need to spend $278 on a DC to DC Charger since this is just a backup mode of charging for me.

Caveat: I will have to keep an eye on the TV battery and make sure it does not get overcharged when I use the system. I’d expect in a longer run of the system, the Alternator voltage would begin to drop. I will test that on the way to Daytona. We will see if the Alternator will regulate to a float charge with both the TV and CTC SOC at near 100%.


Summary/Details:
I will provide some data below by way of screen shots on Victron Monitor; however, note that I started with a State of Charge (SOC) at 84%. I shut everything off for the test, but prior, to get to 84% SOC, I was running everything in my CTC (All lights, fans, radio, inverter, Television, etc.. ) except the microwave and Air Conditioner. The CTC would only draw 22.3A. It would have taken a very long time to get the SOC lower at that rate and I figured this would be a good test in any case. Today, the AC compressor would not run since the temp was in the mid 60’s , so I'd run the microwave intermittently for 2 to 3 minutes at a time and get -118A draw on the batteries. Needed to do something to draw down the SOC! The bank of 4 Duracell 6V Golf Car Batteries seems robust.

Initial charging startup current was 34A. I realize that if the SOC was lower, the circuit would draw more current, but from what I saw with a 1.6 VDC drop @ 34A (54.4 Watts dissipated) from the truck to the CTC, the total line resistance (6GA wire @ ~25ft total plus common ground return, Connector contacts x3, Bus Bar Connections, etc.) will self-limit the current from the TV alternator based on CTC battery voltage and total series resistance. I will try some day with a lower SOC like near 50%, but I suspect, I will never exceed the 50A I set as a max continuous current based on the gage wire I selected.


For completeness and just to be sure, I also switched in the Solar Panels for a few minutes while I had the TV charging to see how the system balanced outputs. It did about what I expected. Each system equally contributed (very close to equal) and I was getting a 46.3A charge. The sun was good here today and I would easily get 24A from the panels even though they are dirty. Note, the fact that the battery took 46.3 A with the Solar and the TV charging , it reinforces or adds credibility to the assumption that the TV Alternator and line resistance is limiting the charge to the 34A and that a lower SOC would not result in significantly higher current. The alternator has the capacity to provide much more and would if it was not being limited/regulated.


So here are the screenshots from my Smartphone and Victron App with two phone camera pics at the end:




CTC Battery Bank initially drew 34.0A from the TV when turned on with 12.8VDC on CTC batteries and 14.4VDC on TV battery.


Image



15 minutes latter the CTC Batteries built up to 13.28VDC and current went down to 23.9A and TV voltage remained at 14.4VDC.


Image


After 30 minutes… charging away … decided to end the test as it would just be an hour or two at that rate and the Batteries would recover to >90%. The last 10% could take a while. I was most concerned with the max current as I noted in previous post. I also wanted to see that I would get a decent rate of charge. A Sterling 1230 or CTEK 250S DC to DC charger would only give a max current of 30A, so neither would charge faster in this case. So absolutely no benefit there.

Image


Here is a pic of the TV and CTC plugged in together and the photoshopped Tag for anonymity. It is time for a new tag. It is getting worn out.. I think maybe next year. :oops:

Image


Here is the relay bottom right in pic with TV battery and 75A Blues Seas fuse on terminal in view on top left of pic. I did note that the terminal fuse was ambient temp to touch and the connectors in rear were the same. No discernable heat from either.


Image



I did take some temp readings with my infrared thermometer and the Alternator never got above 166F which is close to what it normally runs and relatively cool from what I understand. The continuous duty relay maxed out at 104F. TV Battery 97F (warm under hood) and CTC Batteries never got above 76F the whole time.

The fact that the entire circuit only dropped 54W at peak current of 34A with the battery absorbing 438W, the system charged @ 89% efficiency. Not too bad especially since the alternator has plenty to spare. I do expect the efficiency will go down if I start with lower SOC because the line resistance is fixed, but it also gets better as the SOC increases and charge current decreases. It was at about 93% when I ended the test.


Not a worse case test, but is representative of "typical use", so for now, I am going to call it good! More later on the TV Battery and potential for overcharge. I will figure that out next and also let you know how it goes whenever I get a lower SOC and have opportunity to test further. In any case, this is first hand data for me and I am absolutely convinced this is adequate for the intended purpose. I am sure there will be some theoretical arguments against a perfect standard, but this works good enough for me with the exception that the jury is still out on the TV battery SOC over a longer use. I can see nowhere else where there is risk of harm and the performance is there.
Last edited by flboy on Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
User avatar
flboy
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 4218
Images: 378
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 6:13 pm
Top

Re: 7'*18' V-Nose Cargo Trailer Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby hankaye » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:43 pm

flboy, Howdy;

Very, and I do mean VERY impressive write-up of your test flight results.
Not being electrical minded the tech stuff made me feel like I was sitting
in Death Valley while you were speaking from the top of Everest. However,
I can get the fact that you (most important person it matters to), are more
then pleasantly satisfied with the results. Good on ya! I can appreciate the
amount of mental gymnastics involved and your perseverance.
:thumbsup: , :thumbsup: !!!

hank
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...
Every day I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive.
hankaye
2000 Club
2000 Club
 
Posts: 2567
Images: 1
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:35 pm
Location: S.W. New Mexico
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Cargo Trailer Conversions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests