Stage IV 24’ Toy Hauler

[kawierider]

First, I’m glad this forum is here! I’ve been lurking for about a year now while I planned this build. It’s nice to be around like minds!

The backstory:
Well- I like building things. I’m married with a three and a soon to be 6 year old. Before the family I grew up camping with my parents. After college, I bought a used Sunlite pop up truck camper that served me well through my wedding, and through the birth of my (daughter) around that time I discovered that condensation, snow load, ants damage, and an improperly braved AC unit can combine to make for a not so watertight camper come spring!

We made do with a 5th hand (!?) pop up last summer, and agreed to purchase a toy hauler spring of 2019. Needless to say researching camper/toybauler construction, and touring rv’s At dealerships- I was exasperated. Big $$ for a camper that had frills I didn’t need, poor capacity, and even poorer build quality....

So, I figured airstreams were the most durable RV’s out there. They are made with Aluminium skin over studs, with plywood interior walls....just like a cargo trailer! The idea was born: the original concept was to Replace the pop up with a hard sided trailer of similar utility—-and a whole heap of extra flexibility for hauling big boy toys, kids toys, and outdoor adventures like hunting and fishing....anywhere my truck would go.

Long story short; my wife encouraged me to go to plan B. (She’s a pretty good catch...) we decided on the build it once build it right plan! So the goal became:
1) good camper for family road trips across country (maybe including overnight cat naps in a rest area)
2) at home in a traditional campground but also comfortable rustic camping (which we prefer)
3) flexible enough in design to accommodate toys (dirt bikes and a kids quad now, but with potential for a Jeep or pair of UTV’s in the future)
3a) one of my goals is to run the rubicon trail with my kids so that is an important goal of ours!
5) ability to quickly pack, load and go for weekend trips; ability to power wash interior floors after.
4) durable construction with a self imposed goal of 10-11k including purchase of trailer

Big intimidating goals!

[kawierider]

So, I’ve got a big project, a tight timeline, and a tight budget!

I’ve agreed with my wife that we will have a “campable” trailer by July 9th when we leave for a camping trip with extended family. At this point this may mean we load the pop up INTO the trailer. Because we can. And because apparently time isn’t cheap, or easy to come by (work!? Who does that anyway!?)

I’ve agreed to an (at least) 4 stage build plan. The bike is to get through phase one and 2 before July- then the other details will follow.
Phase 1) infrastructure, plumbing, framing, insulation, floors electrical the largest phase. Accommodations for plumbing But I won’t hVe to cut all of the holes yet
Phase 2) sleeping, AC, bathroom maybe kitchen; rough bathroom
Phase 3) finished bathroom, all doors and windows installed seating and storage complete, hot water and heat functional,
Phase 4) fit and finish wrapped up, some clever ideas along the way; party deck on back ramp,

Here is the general layout plan(sorry it fell victim to a toddler spill):
The one on the left;

[kawierider]

Here is the trailer I recently picked up in Elkhart:
The trailer is a Cargo Express Brand
8.5x24
6” extra height
TA3 (5200lb axles)
30” v nose
18” extended tongue
48” side door ( I didn’t want this- but it came in the package) it does have an RV latch








This was a fun day! My oldest was on spring break so we took a trip together to pick it up! Exciting! Maybe a little too exciting as some minor quality control issues slipped my attention- but that’s another post for another day!
We also dug through the numerous RV surplus part places in Elkhart for as long as my son could stand (literally) we picked up some up windows, cargo doors, an extra RV door, holding tanks, a bathtub, tub surround, spare tire, and some odd plumbing and hardware pieces that would come In handy. None of the pieces are perfect per the plan so some additional layout time will be needed to make tough decisions. In hindsight, the tanks will probably not be usable for me—but these things happen when your shopping with a kindergartener!

[kawierider]

Of course now that the trailer is he I’ve spent the last two weeks ( ok more like two days out of the last 14 stripping my old camper of do or parts, and taking advantage of menards days to stock up on much of the build supplies I’d not yet acquired: insulation, frp for the ceiling, plywood, pex, fittings/valves etc

The donor: this was a sad day!


The parts:


More parts:

[Chickenthief]

I think you made the right choice to forego the standard manufactured RV. In one of my former incarnations I was delivering those things out of Elkhart. Back then I had quickly decided that I would never spend my last $175,000 on one of those. Some of them might be ok for affluent older people, or for people who can throw a lot of money around and who don't want to be bothered with building and fabricating, but there's really not much to a lot of the run of the mill RVs when you look just a little bit below that glossy surface.

Good luck with your new endeavor.

[NO David!]

Welcome to the secret society of "non pre-manufactured overpriced RV junk" anonymous! You'll probably look back and think best decision you ever made, and camping without making payments for 144 months or so is awesome!

Here's one of my all time favorite 'larger" toy haulers here:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=43448

Here's our "little" 7x16", very basic, modular to be easily configured to suit whatever camping/hauling we are doing. Also was very easy to convert and get into first trip mode. Then once we got going, we were better able to determine best fit options for the rest of the layout. Pretty similar thought process as you.
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=48345

Had another member strip a camper to build his cargo conversion, of course I can't remember who, and searching takes some creativity here to sift to what you want.

[hankaye]

kawierider, Howdy;

Welcome to the fun parts of life ...
I think the thread that NoDavid was referring to was this one;
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=65498

hank

[kawierider]

Chicken, hank, david;

Thanks for the kind words! This is an exciting process- but the decision was made easier by a) being “cost conscious” and watching trailers fall apart as received by dealers: I had enough after one brand new unit at a dealer had a bathroom door that wouldn’t close—not because the trailer was un-level, but because the doorframe was installed so poorly it hit the ground 90degrees from closed then at the next dealer the shower liner and backsplash were 60% peeled away from the wall!

No David- I’ll read through your links tonight—although FLBoys build was a great read and convinced me this can be done!

[kawierider]

Update on the camper:

Well I discovered my first two mistakes last night! First: the salesman told me the wall studs were 1.5x1” rectangular tube, and that they were oriented with the 1” edge facing in. I swore I measured the wall thickness and verified- but apparently not! I pulled a piece of tr from the v last night after I realized my mistake and it looks like 1.25” wall dress with the wide face facing in. DOH. Makes me feel like —I’m sure I’ll feel that way many more times before this is done!


I’ll pull a few panels after I wrap up my layout, and also verify the window rings and cargo doors I have won’t be affected. May need trim rings to compensate.

Since I already bought the 1.5” insulation, I’m considering using it and either ripping plywood sheets to make up the thickness over the studs- or using half inch foam —which would help with thermal bridging at the studs. My only concern is that if the plywood is necessary structure-I’m not really comfortable floating it above a layer that can’t take the load. Thoughts?

I ordered a set of tanks today to replace the two I have that are too. Big. These new tanks are 14g each; a bit smaller than I’d like on the black water, and really small for the grey. I’m hoping I can fab properly to fit a third tank in my space. It will be a game of inches! The plan is to elevate the 48x40 bathroom- and put plumbing and tanks beneath the bathroom floor, but above the ct floor. I’m planning to build a “cube” frame around the bathroom so if the need arises to haul something longer than expected in the future I can move (or remove) the bathroom rapidly. The dump valve will be inside a cargo door, so above floor level. And don’t worry, I’ll use a seal between the ct wall and the bathroom wall and a sheet metal liner that slopes towards the door in case of spills. Regardless of tank capacity-if we are in a campground for this year, for more than 3 days we will likely have a full hook up site so I’ll feel it out and see if upgrades will be needed.

The other downside to this arrangement is that all fixtures with a drain need to be on the driver side wall, or touching the bathroom. This was no issue with my original plan- but now my wife and I discussed Moving the sink to the passenger side just aft of the door. We both really like that utility but I don’t think I can do that unless I put my extra tank under the floor. Do able but complicates the dumping process a bit...since I didn’t want to pass my plumbing through the floor....need to think it through before I get down to business on Friday....

[McDave]

Hello kawierider,
Well, it's good to see that some things never change. I think we've wrestled with the issues you are currently battling, like odd sized wall studs, and purchasing components that were not quite ideal for the plan. Probably gonna happen no matter how well you plan. So just gotta shake it off and keep on trucking. I think your four phase plan is a solid and realistic way to approach a project like this, especially given your July camping date. But Hey, you might surprize yourself with how fast you can make significant progress. Just remember, haste makes waste. You surely don't want to have to tear out work you have already done. Just keep chipping away at it and soon the time consuming but necessary jobs like insulation and wiring etc. will be done. Then you are off to the races.
Good luck! Have fun and if you need help, just ask.

McDave

[Padilen]

I don't believe that the plywood in all CT is for strength. For the light weight "t"framed CTs i can see plywood as being used for strength. But the better tube built 16" on center CT. Can be found without plywood, some may have white board - paneling.

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[kawierider]

McDave,

Thanks! Yep. Thanks. Slow is fast and fast is slow st this point! I think progress will come at a rewarding pace once I get the planning wrapped up!

Paladin;
I suspect you are correct; the interior walls are not there for structural reasons—especially since the studs are oriented ithe way they are, they will resist racking more than the alternative. but I will do more research tonight to convince myself this is the true. If true: foam board will probably be the way I go. Maybe with a metal spacer or two on each stud to make everything more solid. More thinking to come before tomorrow AM.

[Padilen]

Lower plywood is only there to keep snowmobile ski's and atv wheels from denting skin.
I looked at a lot of all aluminum that had no interior. Mine sold as a SXS hauler has white board.

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[kawierider]

Well, work was done today!

I got to the local Rural King and bought RTV, some pvc fittings, an extra dump valve, and some strap winches for when the time comes for rear bed build. I also got to Alro to buy steel. 4 24’ sticks of 1x1.5x18g. I’ll probably need more when I get to the window phase, but we will see. I also bought 2 12’ lengths of 1/8x2 plate steel.

Padilen,

Thanks for the picture. The difference between your trailer and mine (besides the fact that yours is nice shiny aluminum) is that it looks like there is a strap that goes across the wall at a 45 (or close to it). That’s for racking of the wall. I pulled my trim today and there doesn’t appear to be any such support in mine. That said, I had planned to put a similar brace in from the upper rear corner of the wall to reinforce where I plan to mount the cable or chain to support the ramp/party deck. Your pic made me a)remember and b) consider that IF the plywood is necessary, the cargo rail and this “racking strap” (proper word?) will reduce the load on the plywood. The plan is game on for the 1.5” insulation- once I get to that point! I appreciate the feedback!

I also got a final layout for my tank/dump valve plumbing done. This allowed me to finalize dimensions for the bathroom. I cut and partially welded the frames for the two end walls- and with the help of a friend, got them tacked together square—which was a trick which involved nearly every clamp,level, and tape measure I own! Ran out of shielding gas for the welder so I’ll finish weld the frame and get the additional members in for tub supports, floor, and the tanks tomorrow.

Also researching how to attach/solvent weld fittings into the tanks- that will probably wait until next week.







It’s close, but it fits!

[Padilen]

That's not mine. Was just a pic of one without plywood, or white board.


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