Low cost single speed?

Bicycles for campers, rvers, or just riding around where ever you are

Postby Fenlason » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:22 pm

artwebb wrote:Hey, sorry about the rant, just verry frustrated. I do know about quality vs. price, as I was a mechanic for awhile, and own lots of tools of many brands. Interestingly, my Great Neck tools (Autozone brand) and Stanly tools (formerly Pop mechanics, sold by Walmart) are perfectly servicable tools, although some would argue Craftsman is better (I would actualy differ as far as ratchets, as my Stanly is a better ratchet than any Craftsman I ever owned), and not one of these companies makes a servicable line wrench. But compared to my prized Snap On tools, well, when my wife asked what the difference was I had her hold, just hold, mind you, similar sized wrenches made by Craftsman and Snap On simultaneously and feel their balance, and the wife, who does no mechanical work did, and said 'oh' and never questioned my tool truck jones again. However, I don't turn my nose up at Stanly tools, as I know they'll get the job done. Now, as far as suspension components, I don't care much for suspension on a bike at all, beyond maybe a springer seat, especialy on a cheap bike, where common sense says the components can't be very good. One of the reasons I latched onto the idea of a Huffy MTB being they actualy offer a bike with no suspension at a friendly price. Huffys I've had before have been good, as I've said, in spite of quite a few people back then calling them junk (70's -90's models) Maybe one out of twenty bike shop guys would admit it was a decent product, if you knew them well, and the rest called them junk. You Fenlason have nothing to gain here, as I'm not likely to go out of state to buy a bike, so I have to take your comments as being the truth as you know it. I just wonder, have you worked (or tried to) on a Huffy recently? Is it possible the recent problems with Huffy could be an ugly rumor started by their competitors? I know guys who, if you listen to them, all Fords are junk, or all Chevys are junk. or all Dodges are junk, and in spite of the fact that I've never had a good Ford, there are guys who love their Fords. And then there are the guys who say anything but a (insert name of pricey car with snob appeal here) it's not worth even a look. Maybe I'll invest a small amount of money on a modern Huffy and see if rumors of the companies bad quality are well founded or not


We make so little money on a bicycle especially in our lower end, I would not take all this time even if you lived in the same town as me. If that was my motivation it would not be worth the time. Your mind is made up.. it was some time ago.. many of my answers have been to discuss this with some of the others here.. and not to convince you.
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Postby artwebb » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:57 am

Well, I did go and look at that Huffy and OH MY GOD were you right! since the Academy is close to the bike shop (50 miles away from me) I then went there, and found that, if I had it, I could get a new Trek 820 MTB for $300. This shop does not however handle used bikes as trades when a customer wants to step up, they send him to a guy who works at a location almost in Galveston (another 100-150 miles away)
Anyway, on the way home from there I happened across a 'bicycle shaped object' :lol: for $50 and went ahead and bought it in spite of it's crappy components becuase, at least for now, it seems to work better than it should. (yes, I rode it before purchasing, and checked the action of the freewheel , steering, and wheel bearings, and at this time, all are fairly smooth)
This gives me a throwaway bike to hopefully last untill I can get up enough for that Trek or other decent entry level bike.
I do appologise if any of my posts offended you, sometimes I express myself badly. I guess those 'good' Huffies I had in the past were flukes, and I hope my current 'bike shaped object' will be enough of a fluke to last me till Trek time. :worship:
Anyway, now that I have a temporary 'BSO' I hope it'll last untill I can get a decent ride, and I DO appreciate your advice, even if I am hard headed. So thank you, Fenlason, Connestoga, and everyone else who is now saying 'I told you so, dummy!' Next time I have a question I promise to listen more and argue less, and I hope you will be as helpfull as you were this time, and forgive my concrete skull :lol: :thumbsup: :applause:
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Postby Fenlason » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:16 am

artwebb wrote:Well, I did go and look at that Huffy and OH MY GOD were you right! since the Academy is close to the bike shop (50 miles away from me) I then went there, and found that, if I had it, I could get a new Trek 820 MTB for $300. This shop does not however handle used bikes as trades when a customer wants to step up, they send him to a guy who works at a location almost in Galveston (another 100-150 miles away)
Anyway, on the way home from there I happened across a 'bicycle shaped object' :lol: for $50 and went ahead and bought it in spite of it's crappy components becuase, at least for now, it seems to work better than it should. (yes, I rode it before purchasing, and checked the action of the freewheel , steering, and wheel bearings, and at this time, all are fairly smooth)
This gives me a throwaway bike to hopefully last untill I can get up enough for that Trek or other decent entry level bike.
I do appologise if any of my posts offended you, sometimes I express myself badly. I guess those 'good' Huffies I had in the past were flukes, and I hope my current 'bike shaped object' will be enough of a fluke to last me till Trek time. :worship:
Anyway, now that I have a temporary 'BSO' I hope it'll last untill I can get a decent ride, and I DO appreciate your advice, even if I am hard headed. So thank you, Fenlason, Connestoga, and everyone else who is now saying 'I told you so, dummy!' Next time I have a question I promise to listen more and argue less, and I hope you will be as helpfull as you were this time, and forgive my concrete skull :lol: :thumbsup: :applause:


I told you so dummy... 8) :R :lol:

Actually I was not sure of that result at all. I was half expecting you to get one and think it was ok.
I do see that all the time. I see people bringing in junk.. [whether a Huffy or an abused Trek( or what ever)] They love their bike.. think it is the best there is, and even think they could win the Tour de France on it.


When these people come in with their bikes.. We try to not rain on their parade.

We do at times have to tell people their bike is not worth fixing.. that it might need $200.00 to make it safe, and a new one like they have can be purchased for $100.00. One has to be careful of that though. Some people can get offended, although most appreciate the honesty.

That situation can happen with any bike.. and there are times when people want it done anyways. [In some cases the bike has sentimental significance.]

Some people don't have a clue.. don't know any better.. or.. I don't know what.

hmm I am thinking of a few years back, when a friend brought his bike in for something for a minor repair.. and I took it for a test ride after. The headset bearings were soooo bad. The bike was barely rideable and unsafe. He had no idea...
this was a fairly expensive race bike..a nice bike.


I did take your last questioning post semi personally. It felt like you were questioning me... Yet I do understand you don't know me.. you don't know my integrity.. intelligence, and objectivity.. or my experience.

I actually try and tone down my displeasure with some of these bikes... BSO because I don't want to offend others.. and as has been said, some people still love them.

Fairly early on in the Mountain evolution.. they started having mountain festivals. [they still have them] We would get together for a weekend.. or longer. to ride..and party. Early on.. many of the participants were bike shop or industry people. At these events in addition to lots of riding, they had fun competitions. Log pulls, bunny hop contests.. etc. One of these competitions was something called a Huffy Toss. We would take a Huffy and throw it as far as we could. It was great fun.. we often really hate working on these things.. and it was a great stress reliever to take one and toss it. We often fantasize doing that to a customers bike. [We were not just singling out Huffys but they were the most common name of the various bikes in their class]

Fat City Cycles a small company that hand built some very sweet bikes.. actually made a catapult using the coil springs off a railroad box car.. just so they could really really toss a "Huffy". They could adjust it, to throw for distance, or to slam it really hard into the ground. :D
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Postby drafter » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:50 am

I do remember waaaaaay back (30+ years) when I purchased my first 10 speed when I was like 13 years old. I worked delivering papers to afford to buy it. That bike lasted me until I was old enough to drive. I can say that I probably put hundreds of miles on it. I used to be able to go to a local herdware store to buy parts for it.

Just for shicks and giggles I looked at the Wal-Mart bikes last night. mmmmmm... I am not really sure why anyone would buy one now. Disposable is the key word.

My son reminded me of his bike he purchased from one of the box stores. He was trail riding with a few of his friends ( a few years back) and as he was decending down by a stream, the bolt on his break lever broke and fell apart. He went swimming and got a little beat up. He never fixed it. It is now encased in a four foot snowbank in the back yard waiting for the spring cleanup.

I am amazed that I didn't even remember that in our earlier posts. The good news is now that my son has quit growing (I hope @ 6'-2"), he is looking at a new Trek this spring.
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Postby artwebb » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:53 am

I think I qualify (or did) as one of those who got useable cheapos as a matter of dumb luck. Now I've had the experience of seeing what you probably see every time someone brings you a cheapo bike, and understand just how lucky I was. My interim crappo bike just went up in price by half. I replaced the suppository the factory equippped it with with a $25 cruiser saddle (remember the BSO itself was $50) I had forgotten how bad those 'racing' style BMX or MTB saddles could hurt after just a little riding, especialy after an extended period of no biking. Maybe I should have got a cruiser style BSO instead, it'd probably hold up just as long on a trail, did I trust this thing on any such thing.
That's okay, I'll be a casual rider at best for a while untill I get some fitness up. You wouldn't believe how bad a twenty minute ride wore me out. Don't think I'll ever need to do squats again for leg strength (as if I do them now) Still, I'm having fun, if only by luaghing at myself.
Fenlason let me say again I am very sorry I offended you. As you said, I don't personaly know you, or I'd have known better. Sometimes I just have to prove to myself I'm wrong :oops:
Huffy toss? With a catapult? :lol: :thumbsup: :applause:
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Postby Conestoga » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:11 am

catapulting a piano looked like fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5FVG4w7Bpk

Fenlason, inquiring minds want to know:
How big of a catapult and how far does a bike fly? :thinking:
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Postby Fenlason » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:15 am

Conestoga wrote:catapulting a piano looked like fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5FVG4w7Bpk

Fenlason, inquiring minds want to know:
How big of a catapult and how far does a bike fly? :thinking:


I never got the privilege of seeing it in person. It was a sprung catapult vs a trebuchet. They would "winch" it down against the box car springs they used.

I think the distance was around a couple hundred feet. It would be considered pretty minor compared to the hurlers out there now.

I was not able to find anything about it online.

Fat City Cycles is now out of business. :cry:

Chris Chance started making race bikes back in the 70's. He made is first Mountain bikes in the early 80's One of the names of mountain bikes back then.. were fat tire flyers.... so it was only natural that he name them Fat Chance. .. His skinny tired race bikes then because Slim Chances.

They built some sweet machines. Some of his people have gone on to form other great stuff. Independent Fabrication being one of them.
:thumbsup:
Last edited by Fenlason on Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fenlason » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:21 am

artwebb wrote:I think I qualify (or did) as one of those who got useable cheapos as a matter of dumb luck. Now I've had the experience of seeing what you probably see every time someone brings you a cheapo bike, and understand just how lucky I was. My interim crappo bike just went up in price by half. I replaced the suppository the factory equippped it with with a $25 cruiser saddle (remember the BSO itself was $50) I had forgotten how bad those 'racing' style BMX or MTB saddles could hurt after just a little riding, especialy after an extended period of no biking. Maybe I should have got a cruiser style BSO instead, it'd probably hold up just as long on a trail, did I trust this thing on any such thing.
That's okay, I'll be a casual rider at best for a while untill I get some fitness up. You wouldn't believe how bad a twenty minute ride wore me out. Don't think I'll ever need to do squats again for leg strength (as if I do them now) Still, I'm having fun, if only by luaghing at myself.
Fenlason let me say again I am very sorry I offended you. As you said, I don't personaly know you, or I'd have known better. Sometimes I just have to prove to myself I'm wrong :oops:
Huffy toss? With a catapult? :lol: :thumbsup: :applause:


We are cool.. no worries. :D

That is one of the "problem" with some of the less expensive bikes out there. New tires and a tune up can cost more than the bike did new...Some people have a hard time with that... but if they have a bike that works.. and they are happy with.. what do you do, go buy a new one.. :?
glenn

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Postby Fenlason » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:35 am

I find it interesting.. that while department store bikes.. in general are getting worse. Most bike shop bikes are getting better.

a $1,000 dollar bike is sooo much more bike.. a much better bike than it was 10 years ago. For the most part I think that is the case up and down the price scale.

Of course what you can pay for a bike has gone up also. The upper end is getting nuts. It used to be that a shop employee could.. or would manage to purchase the best. That is not the case any more. :(

There is some very expensive equipment made.. just because there are people out there that will purchase it [just because it is the most expensive], but for the most part....the upper end stuff is OMG nice.

As someone here has said I feel sorry for kids on some of the department store stuff that is out there. Some of their bikes have to be in the 50 pound range.. :o :? :no:
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Postby drafter » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:43 am

I started buying my bikes from the local bike shop to help support my local businesses. After buying from them I have learned that the quality of the bikes is much higher than any you can buy from a box store.

The shop owners themselves are great to talk to and work with. They won't try to upsell you on something you either don't need or can't afford. I think we are lucky to have people like them.

If everyone had bought from a box store they would be out of business and try to get any support from a box store.
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Postby artwebb » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:13 am

Got that right. I'm surprised you can get ANYTHING for a 'bike' at a dept. store today, and you never could get much. I remember a pair of Skyway Tuff Wheels I bought second hand and rebuilt that were my wheels for three different 'bikes' (all also used) that were dept store models, before I paired them happily with an original Webco frame (tank, but unbreakable) with a set of forks made by a company I always want to call Kuwahara but I know that's wrong. Unlike typical 80's BMX forks they were blade style, and a good match for the bike.
If I ever find the b**tard who stole it his a** is mine, no matter how long it's been. Interesting. I just realized reading what I just wrote, I wasn't realy happy with those crap bikes even back then.
Must be that nostalgia thing at work. You remember the good while forgetting the bad :thinking:
Anyway, suffice it to say, there've been some bike shop components on more than one of my clunkers, cuase when you break an actual part, like a wheel, the bike shop is your only recourse. Man, now I sorta feel bad buying my latest BSO from a box store. But if I'd held off, I might have lost interest in biking again, whereas WITH a 'bike' I'll be more likely to retain interest, so that means contrary to the usual way of things, I'm more likely to buy a good bike down the line by having this one. maybe I'll meet someone with a trebuchet :twisted:
But I'm KEEPING the seat! I can barely sit down without wincing today! :lol:
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Postby drafter » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:15 am

Here it is the middle of January and I am really looking forward to buying a trike this spring. The problem is that nobody has them in my area and to ask any questions to. My local shop can get Sun and Rans but they have never sold any.

Each manufacturer has advantages and disadvantages, so I am really having a hard time deciding. I really like the TerraTrike because the seat is adjustable anywhere between 40 and 70 degrees while some have either little or no adjustment. Fenlason, do you have any thoughts on the trikes?
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Postby Fenlason » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:17 pm

drafter wrote:Here it is the middle of January and I am really looking forward to buying a trike this spring. The problem is that nobody has them in my area and to ask any questions to. My local shop can get Sun and Rans but they have never sold any.

Each manufacturer has advantages and disadvantages, so I am really having a hard time deciding. I really like the TerraTrike because the seat is adjustable anywhere between 40 and 70 degrees while some have either little or no adjustment. Fenlason, do you have any thoughts on the trikes?


Drafter:

recumbents are definitely tougher to make a choice on. As you said there are not nearly as many places that sell them... and a lot of the decisions are based on personal preferences.

I have ridden a few regular bents... two wheeled vs 3. Single and tandem. Yet I am not sure I could tell you what they all were.. or which ones I liked better.
A friend that owned another store carried quite a few. I participated in a group ride there with him , and he made me ride a different bike each week. I never really got the chance to get used to any. As with [as he called them] wedgie bikes.. there are all kinds.. casual.. touring... performance orientated.

Another hard part is many have gone out of business.

Most of the people I work with are not into them [actually all of them], so we don't carry them. In the past they just let my friend have that part of the market [he was nearby] He has since closed.

Actually we did sell the Bike E it was a lower end bike. It was also much easier to get on and ride, but definitely not performance orientated. It was more a cruise around the block after dinner bike.


Out of the 3 you are looking at I think I would lean towards the terra trike, yet that is not based on lots of detailed knowledge. While it may be an incorrect reputation, but to me, sun made "work" vehicles... more utility vehicles... there tandems were definately of a lesser quality... causually oriented.

Rans has a great reputation in general.. I am not sure I personally enjoyed riding their bikes as I have others [2 wheeled]. I am also not so sure of having the two wheels in back on a trike.

I see Greenspeed also is making one of that style also. I might have to do more reading on that. Off hand from what I know.. that does not make sense to me...???

I have road a friends of a friends trike this summer.. I loved it.hhhm I think it was a catrike... at an overall first glance I liked it.

I have been leaning towards a greenspeed myself, but because I would get a tandem. Their bike has been around a while, and has a great reputation. I have a friend from out of state that did buy one of those, and I got to ride it his summer. Wow was it sweet..!!

One quick ride, and my wife agreed it goes on the list.
If I was not buying a tandem.. I would personally expand my search and look close at terratrike and catrike also.


good luck.
:D
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Postby Cliffmeister2000 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:48 pm

emiller wrote:I went with a vintage ballon tire bike and like it better than my other two bikes. paid $80.00 for it and sunk in another $600.00. You wouldn't have to get all fancy like me and re chrome everything on it but you can pick up some nice bikes at yard sales or even your local pawn shop. Here is what I have

Image


Eddie, you never do anything half way, do you!?! :lol:
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Postby Fenlason » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:56 pm

I just got done looking at the TerraTrike and Greenspeed. [tandems]

I did not realize that the TerraTrike tandem has the name Wizwheels on it. I have seen one of those in person also.

A discrepancy on the TerraTrike web site... that I am a little bothered with... In the why ride recumbent section they say....

" The high seat back allows you to leverage more pedal power by pushing with your back against the seat. Human power is maximized under these conditions."

Then in the how durable are the chain idler wheels... they say

" Remember to downshift when approaching stop signs and intersections, making accelleration easier when you start up again. Likewise, remember to downshift when approaching a uphill climb so you don't get caught in a big gear. Nothing wears down idler wheel faster than mashing your trike in big gears on an uphill climb or upon starting from a dead stop. Big strong riders who can handle these large gears are more likely to ruin idler wheels until they learn the disciplined technique of downshifting."

They are basically saying the seat of a recumbent makes it easier to "gear mash".. as if that is an advantage .... then they tell you it is not a great idea to do that.. :thinking: :?

then in another area they write..

"Why do TerraTrikes have fewer gears than some other trikes?

First remember that the number of gears is never as important as the range of gearing. The bike industry has done a great job convincing the consumer that more gears = better. This is far from true. More gears only = more complexity (and potential mechanical problems), and more weight to carry around. We believe that we could race or tour on any bike with 5 gears if we could pick our shift points. The old 10 speeds we all had actually had the same gear range as today's 27 speed mountain bikes. The new ones just have more overlapping or redundant gears.

Most recumbent companies try to dazzle the consumer with a big number of gears. This is superfluous, and a waste of your money. The number you want to compare is the Gear Inch Range."

Much of this is untrue...The part where they say the old 10speeds we all had actually had the same gear range as today's 27 speed mountain bikes"... is TOTALLY WRONG!!

The gearing range they offer may be enough for some people, on some terrain. for others not. In my case ... a tandem..in what I have for terrain... there is a great demand for gearing. It can be nice ... and necessary to have fairly low gearing to get a tandem up a hill, and a tandem can make great use of BIG gears on a downhill.. Tandems can fly.

Overall the Terratrike bills it self as simpler and cheaper.option... and that it is.

The Greenspeed is much more expensive.. I think the value is there, but whether it is worth it to someone or not.. will depend on their circumstance.

Of course this was looking at the Tandems.. Often a companies Tandems don't reflect the rest of company well.

As an example years ago Gary Fisher make a Tandem..and it was nothing great at all... not up the the standards of their other bikes.

Of course If I was looking at singles.. the Catrike would still be a something I would have to look at..
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