CCC Explorer Box

[GPW]

"Exploring " many design possibilities, we always seem to come back to re-visit the E-box.. just too practical for short stays ...and a bit of hauling ...multitasking..

[schaney]

GPW, I think the Explorer Box is a great design although I am the designer

Glad to hear you keep coming back to it, look forward to seeing what you finally come up with.

[BoilermakerFan]

Hey Scott

I haven't been on TTT for sometime, so I kind of found your thread in reverse order after I ordered your DIY manual.

Since I need the utility trailer for other purposes, I'll definitely build mine to be removable in the garage via an overhead lift, kind of like those canoe or bike lifts, but beefed up a bit. I'll make a little 10" pneumatic tire dolly to wheel it around for storage too.

A lot of great ideas in this thread! I'll definitely have to incorporate some of them in my build. Scott, can you post up or email links to some of those new tent fabrics? I'm on the bubble as to whether to use our existing 9'x9' Eureaka tent or build a custom tent with the features I really want like side vestibule/changing area.

Have you tried adapting one of the utility trailers for use with torsion axles? I may see if they can offer it as an option for me. I just don't like leaf spring suspensions on utility trailers...

- Brian

[GPW]

I was mentioning this trailer to a friend of mine who wants/needs a TTT. It was either this one or the "airliner" (see album)...The one point he mentioned was "bouncing"...We have the Worst roads(something any Louisianian' can attest) and bouncing all the stuff around does seem like a major concern ...I suggested lightening the springs, but that would negate the amazing versatility of this trailer...hauling "utility loads would bog the trailer down...shocks might help...driving on better roads might help...if we could find one... Any ideas to better fully utilize this great little design????

[schaney]

GPW, good luck with getting them to maintain the roads better

Good timing, I've been researching smooth riding springs recently. Long and flat make the best riding springs. The short, arched HF springs are definitely stiff. If you're trailer weight is always +/- 100 lbs it's easy to dial-in some smooth riding springs. If going the multi-purpose route with big weight differences, you can get a reasonable ride using an overload leaf on the bottom of your spring pack. This is the same type of spring you'll find in the rear of most pickups.

Keep in mind quality springs will cost you, HF type springs are $6-$11 each, the OME ones I'm looking at are $56-$90 each.

[GPW]

Thanks for the tip... We'll be using an old boat trailer cut down (lots of those still around here cheap) The one we have now needs new springs anyway so we'll remember that when we install new ones ...do you think some small shocks would help?....The Guy I'm building it for is re-building his storm damaged house and will be hauling wood,sheetrock etc. and really light stuff the rest of the time..

[schaney]

When using a truck type overload leaf spring, shocks will help with the "floating" around. Although be careful, if the shocks are to stiff you'll be back to the "bouncing" problem.

[BoilermakerFan]

I don't know how much time or money you want to put into it, but one thing I came across in my research to date is a trailing arm suspension with an adjustable shock and airbag. A cheaper option might be a progressive spring with an adjustable shock in a coil-over design. I haven't started searching for the progressive springs yet, but I know they have them in much longer sizes for full size 4x4 trucks. I'm a VW fan, so I was going to check with some of the specialty sand rail builders/suppliers.

[schaney]

Boilermakerfan, I've toyed with the idea of a trailing arm trailer supsension. Still in the sketches and phase. Would provide a very nice ride and be very tunable, although most likely fairly costly.

I'm assuming you can come up with swing arms some where between the massive ones on Adventure off-road Trailers and the small ones on Rack and Roll kayak Trailers. I'd start by looking at King and Fox for a coilover shock setup. The AirZone air bag we've discussed before also look like an interesting way to go. It would be nice if an off-the-shelf VW setup would work.

The hubs you mentioned, http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/cgi-b ... detail.jsp look interesting, is there more spec information available? Is the 115mm bolt center a standard one?

[BoilermakerFan]

Boilermakerfan, I've toyed with the idea of a trailing arm trailer supsension. Still in the sketches and phase. Would provide a very nice ride and be very tunable, although most likely fairly costly.

I'm assuming you can come up with swing arms some where between the massive ones on Adventure off-road Trailers and the small ones on Rack and Roll kayak Trailers. I'd start by looking at King and Fox for a coilover shock setup. The AirZone air bag we've discussed before also look like an interesting way to go. It would be nice if an off-the-shelf VW setup would work.

The hubs you mentioned, http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/cgi-b ... detail.jsp look interesting, is there more spec information available? Is the 115mm bolt center a standard one?

Scott

I haven't come up with anything yet, but I haven't really dug into the R&D outside of the few things we have talked about offline. I haven't dug out any old V-Dub magazines to find the right dealers either. The AirZone is great and would be incredibly flexible, but they are very expensive so that is why I started to look at coil-overs with progressive springs. Massive trailing arms may not be a bad thing as the mass would help to dampen the suspension since we're trying to take a system designed for a 3,000 pound vehicle and use it on a trailer that could be about 600 pounds dry and only about 1,800 pounds heavily loaded. The bigger challenge will be finding a good length for both the trailing arm and shock that will allow for a lower ride height, but still keep the suspension geometries in line for the best performance empty and under load. I'll be digging into the general rules of thumb for those magic ratios over the next weeks.

That hub was just one that I found linked in another TTT thread. It used to be more common as an import vehicle bolt pattern, but the wheels I'd want to use aren't available in that size, nor are the common low cost steel wheels for trailers. A 4-bolt 4" and 5-bolt 4-1/2" (114.3mm) are the two most common sizes I have seen on trailer axles.

If I can't find a workable trailing arm suspension I will just go to a torsion axle which can be purchased to cover 1,000-2,000 pounds, or 600-900 pounds if somebody is really trying to go fly weight.

- BMF

[schaney]

Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Now that I think about it Cherokees use a bolt-on sealed bearing/hub assemble, the 2WD version might work for trailers.

[BoilermakerFan]

Well

I did find the stock steel wheel Ryder uses for that hub linked above, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and this one needs lots of make-up!

http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/cgi-b ... detail.jsp

So there is at least one complete wheel and bolt-on hub assembly, but I want electric brakes too, so my search will continue or I'll have to go wth the Dexter torsion axle.

I'm tied up in a couple of projects for work, so my camping trailer will be pushed down the priority list until the first of the year. I'll continue to do the research and design concepts, but no fabrication will take place until after the new year.

[BoilermakerFan]

I think I found the easiest solution to a better ride on a trailer without going to the expense and trouble of a fully custom trailing arm IRS...

A universal triangulated 4-link:
http://airbagit.com/product_info.php?cP ... 81260d1dd4

So you could use a standard Dexter leaf spring axle which has standard 4 or 5 bolt hubs and the option for electric brakes. Hack off the leaf springs and weld on the 4-link. Add your choice of progressive coil-overs or airshocks.

Have to thank the Dec. '08 issue of Sport Truck for having a snippet on a DIY 4-Link suspension on their front cover or I wouldn't have found this.

The geometry for the shock location would have to be sorted out and it would probably require custom shock mounts to be welded on to a kit or bog box store trailer, but it would certainly lend itself to a better ride at all loads.

[navigator]

Here is a short item on trailer suspensions:
http://www.adventuretrailers.com/suspension.html

And here is a bolt-on trailing arm suspension:
http://www.vehiclecomponents.com.au/con ... tentID=456

I read through some exploreoz forum posts, and it seems that unless you're doing extreme off-road travel, a rubber torsion axle is a very good solution, and won't break the bank...

[BoilermakerFan]

A torsion axle is great and will definitely improve the handling over a leaf spring trailer, but they still have a limited range of recommended weights, so they still bounce when completely empty or hauling less that 500 pounds on a 2,000 pound axle. Plus they are not easily adjustable for ride height. A custom cam-style adjustable mount could be made using quick release pins, but then the cost is back up near a 4-link or custom trailing arm.

Everything has a trade-off, but I agree that if you plan to build a simple, permanent Explorer Box type of trailer for on-road use only, the torsion axle would be a better choice than the standard leaf spring axle at a minimum cost increase. Unfortunately, it's tough to find lower cost, smaller utility trailers with torsion axles.

I'm having a hard time finding reasonably priced adjustable coil-over shocks. Cheapest set I could put together was about $600 for racing shocks, springs, and the coil-over mounts. Monroe makes a LoadLeveler coil-over shock with a variable spring rate that runs about $150 per set that should work well enough with the 4-link suspension, but I'm not sure what length would be needed.