M116A3 Build

...ask your questions in the appropriate forums BUT document your build here...preferably in a single thread...dates for updates, are appreciated....

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby lfhoward » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:56 pm

I’ve been doing some research into solar charging because it seems like I haven’t been getting the best results with my current charging system, which I got on Craigslist back in 2016. The current system is a 24V 140 watt panel mated to a Tracer 10 amp MPPT charge controller. This was a pretty good system in 2016 even though it was used, but there are much better options out there now. Solar panels have gone from about 15% efficiency to 20% efficiency since 2015 and MPPT charge controllers have gotten better and less expensive.

The current 140 watt panel should have produced 3.88 amps at 36.1 volts when new. I only get a maximum of 7 amps of charge in full sun with a depleted 12 volt battery, and usually it’s closer to 5 amps. Going with the 7 amp figure, at 12 volts that’s only 84 watts of charge. That’s only 60% of the rated 140 watts for the panel. Some of that loss is due to the solar charge controller being only 92% efficient according to its specs, but that leaves 32% loss due to panel degradation (it was old when I got it). I think it’s time to start thinking of upgrading the charging system.

I would want to replace the 140 watt panel with another of the same dimensions, since I have a rack system permanently mounted on the roof that I don’t want to move. There is a Rich Solar 200 watt option that fits the bill, making 5.56 amps at 36 volts. (I will stick with a higher voltage panel since the wires connecting it are only 14 gauge which are fine at that voltage but a little undersized at 12 volts).

Image

Epever makes a new Tracer 20 amp MPPT charge controller that is 97% efficient for a 200 watt panel, a big improvement over the older tech. It also has a temperature sensor that can be placed in the battery box for optimizing the charging rate depending on whether the batteries are hot or cold. This should extend the batteries’ lives. The controller is much more affordable than Victron (pretty much the gold standard) but gets good reviews. It also has a remote monitor that would be plug and play in the location where my current Tracer monitor fits.

Image

In terms of order of operations, I would need to acquire the charge controller first since my current controller is maxed out at 130 watts (yup, it’s hooked to a 140 watt panel but it doesn’t make 140 watts anymore). With the upgraded controller I can then get a 200 watt panel. The new panel should provide 16.7 amps of charge assuming no inefficiency, so maybe 12 or so amps in the real world. That would about double my charging capacity on a clear day.

All of this research into charging options is also me thinking ahead to eventually upgrading to LiFePO4 batteries at some point in the future. The new Epever charge controller can be set up for lithium batteries and the temperature sensor can ensure that charging will cut out at freezing temperatures so as to not damage them. Lithium batteries are coming down in price and will be attainable by the next time my lead acid batteries need replacing (2025?). I like what I see with the EVE cells (3.2 volts X4 cells) and Daly BMS, as shown on YouTube by Will Prouse and by Dan from Freely Roaming. Dan even came up with a way to warm and cool his lithium battery so that it could be charged and used in winter (a real practical consideration where I live in Pennsylvania). The 280 amp hour EVE battery would have more than double the available amp hours of my 3 lead acid deep cycle batteries, at less than 1/3 of the weight. Here are the specifics:

Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrIpvu3rOPo

280 amp hours in lithium = 280 usable amp hours, or 3360 watt hours at 12 volts.
75 amp hours in one group 24 lead acid x 3 batteries = 225 amp hours or 2700 watt hours for my current system. But that = 112.5 usable amp hours or 1350 watt hours at 50% depth of discharge.
Lithium can store about 250% of the usable power that my current 3 battery system can in the space taken up by a single lead acid battery.

That’s a lot of juice. We could run our fridge, heater, electric blankets, and computers for a week without having to worry at all about power consumption.

It’s fun to dream.
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
User avatar
lfhoward
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:10 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby bdosborn » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:32 pm

I'm seeing a lot of people buy these panels on the Facebook DIY RV solar systems group (there's a discount code for the group):
https://www.continuousresources.com/collections/solar-panels-and-hardware/products/hightec-solar-210w-36-cell-12v-nominal-solar-panel-6-busbar

I like the specs,they run it at a high enough voltage that its a good match for a 12V system. You could probably use a PWM controller with it if you wanted to save some $$$. I've got a Victron MPPT controller and its awesome, but expensive. I'm a data junky so the Victron phone app is the monkey on my back. A Victron 75/15 would be enough for the 200W panel and the default LiFePO4 charging settings are pretty good.

I think Will Prowse is a hack, although he's learned a lot since he started his forum. He vets everything you see in his videos on his forums before he posts them. BUT, he was the guy who gave me the push to get into Li batteries. I figured if he could do it then its just not that hard. :lol:

I like Freely Roaming Dan, his videos are well presented.
Bruce

I just got a Daly 30A smart BMS in the mailbox today, gonna start playing with it tomorrow. I also have an Electrodacus BMS on the way.
2009 6.5'X11' TTT - Boxcar
All it takes is a speck of faith and a few kilowatts of sweat and grace.
Image
Boxcar Build
aVANger Build
User avatar
bdosborn
Donating Member
 
Posts: 5551
Images: 790
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:10 pm
Location: CO, Littleton

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby bdosborn » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:51 pm

P.S.I just got another battery top balanced, load tested and in compression. I'm using 200AH CALB SE cells for this one.
Image

Bruce
2009 6.5'X11' TTT - Boxcar
All it takes is a speck of faith and a few kilowatts of sweat and grace.
Image
Boxcar Build
aVANger Build
User avatar
bdosborn
Donating Member
 
Posts: 5551
Images: 790
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:10 pm
Location: CO, Littleton
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby lfhoward » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:52 pm

bdosborn wrote:I'm seeing a lot of people buy these panels on the Facebook DIY RV solar systems group (there's a discount code for the group):
https://www.continuousresources.com/collections/solar-panels-and-hardware/products/hightec-solar-210w-36-cell-12v-nominal-solar-panel-6-busbar

I like the specs,they run it at a high enough voltage that its a good match for a 12V system. You could probably use a PWM controller with it if you wanted to save some $$$. I've got a Victron MPPT controller and its awesome, but expensive. I'm a data junky so the Victron phone app is the monkey on my back. A Victron 75/15 would be enough for the 200W panel and the default LiFePO4 charging settings are pretty good.

Oh, that’s a nice looking panel and the price and dimensions are right also. I really like that it’s made in USA too. I’ll save that link. I just have to decide if I’m ok with the 9.37 amps using my 14 gauge wire between the panel and the controller location. (I don’t want to rip out my ceiling to replace the solar wires with a larger gauge.) The distance is approximately 10 feet I’m guessing. That’s about 3% voltage drop according to this chart:

Image
http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/newsletter/images/DC_wire_selection_chartlg.jpg

I’m leaning toward the Epever Tracer charge controller because its monitor fits perfectly in the spot the old one is. However, it’s tempting to get a Victron Bluetooth charge controller because I am also a data junkie. Then I could get a Victron 712 Bluetooth battery monitor and 500 amp shunt, and put the monitor there. And... before you know it I’ve spent three times as much money!
Last edited by lfhoward on Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
User avatar
lfhoward
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:10 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby lfhoward » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:56 pm

bdosborn wrote:P.S.I just got another battery top balanced, load tested and in compression. I'm using 200AH CALB SE cells for this one.
Image

Bruce

That’s awesome! I will definitely be looking up your threads when it’s time to make the leap to lithium.
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
User avatar
lfhoward
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:10 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby bdosborn » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:05 pm

A #14awg wire is good for 15A so that's not a problem. The panel Vmp is 22.4V so at 3% drop you would be at 21.7V. That's still plenty of voltage to give you the headroom you need for a hot day when the panel voltage drops. I'd use the #14 wire. Lots of guys oversize the panel wire like crazy, that's just a waste of copper IMHO.
Bruce
P.S. Victron has a smart shunt now that's cheaper than the 712. Same shunt, no meter. You just use your phone.
2009 6.5'X11' TTT - Boxcar
All it takes is a speck of faith and a few kilowatts of sweat and grace.
Image
Boxcar Build
aVANger Build
User avatar
bdosborn
Donating Member
 
Posts: 5551
Images: 790
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:10 pm
Location: CO, Littleton
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby lfhoward » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:27 pm

bdosborn wrote:A #14awg wire is good for 15A so that's not a problem. The panel Vmp is 22.4V so at 3% drop you would be at 21.7V. That's still plenty of voltage to give you the headroom you need for a hot day when the panel voltage drops. I'd use the #14 wire. Lots of guys oversize the panel wire like crazy, that's just a waste of copper IMHO.
Bruce
P.S. Victron has a smart shunt now that's cheaper than the 712. Same shunt, no meter. You just use your phone.

Thanks for the advice on the 14 gauge wire. I’d rather buy a well made USA solar panel than one from anywhere else, so I’m glad it’s compatible with my wiring. And thanks for the tip about the Facebook group and the discount code. I joined the group already and it looks helpful.

So...
Epever 20 amp tracer MPPT with remote monitor and temperature sensor for $118 total
OR
Victron 75/15 smart MPPT for $118 AND Victron temperature sensor for $25 AND Victron 712 battery monitor and shunt for $206 = $349 total
(I would want the wall monitor rather than only the phone app)

Hmmmmmm
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
User avatar
lfhoward
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:10 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby bdosborn » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:45 pm

lfhoward wrote:Victron 75/15 smart MPPT for $118 AND Victron temperature sensor for $25 AND Victron 712 battery monitor and shunt for $206 = $349 total

That's how they get you, the Victron networking: the temp sensor talks to the MPPT which talks to the 712. I have mine hooked up to a Raspberry Pi so I can monitor my trailer from anywhere in the world, from my phone or from a web browser. I get an email if my shore power connection goes down. The phone app has a demo mode, you can install it and see how the apps work.

Bruce
2009 6.5'X11' TTT - Boxcar
All it takes is a speck of faith and a few kilowatts of sweat and grace.
Image
Boxcar Build
aVANger Build
User avatar
bdosborn
Donating Member
 
Posts: 5551
Images: 790
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:10 pm
Location: CO, Littleton
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby featherliteCT1 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:14 pm

lfhoward said: That’s awesome! I will definitely be looking up your threads when it’s time to make the leap to lithium.


Me too!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
featherliteCT1
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:54 am
Location: Southern Indiana
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby lfhoward » Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:27 pm

I've been doing a little information gathering on panels and solar charge controllers. I really like the idea of buying USA-made Hightec Solar panels from Continuous Resources. They have several options for panels of the correct dimensions for my trailer:

210 watt @ $194
200+25% watt @ $200

I asked about what the +25% was, and they said:
The 200 W plus 25% is a bifacial panel. The front of the panel works like the other hightec 200 W panel. The plus 25% comes in from the reflection of the roof that is collected on the back side of the cells. The panels do need to be tilted for this to work.

I have a white aluminum roof and a rack mount that I can use to tilt the panel, so this may be a viable option. Has anyone heard of this kind of panel before, or has anyone tried it?

-----

Secondly, I'm looking at solar charge controllers. I am going back and forth between the Epever Tracer AN2210 and the Victron 75/15.

Epever Tracer Pros:
$118 for the controller, temperature sensor, and remote monitor all together. That's a deal.
The remote monitor will be a direct swap for the old tracer monitor, so no problem making the monitor fit.
It can be used with future Lithium batteries.

Epever Tracer Cons:
It might be a little large for the space I have, possibly interfering with convective cooling. I would only have about 2 inches above and below the unit, whereas the instructions recommend about 6 inches of space above and below.
It doesn't have the networking ability of the Victron unit.
It doesn't have the data logging ability of the Victron.

Victron Pros:
$118 for the controller is still pretty good. The battery temperature monitor is $39 additional (a con?)
It has bluetooth so the remote monitor is my iPhone. The app can store and analyze data over time.
It can be used with future Lithium batteries.

Victron Cons:
What do I do with the space on my wall where the current Tracer meter goes? It's a 3 inch hole.
I'm going to want to get the Victron shunt/battery monitor for another $200 to fill the space and give me that ability. It opens up the rabbit hole of spending a lot more money on cool networked tech, whereas the Tracer is one and done.
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
User avatar
lfhoward
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:10 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby bdosborn » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:48 pm

I looked around just a little and didn't find anything about the bifacial panels that made me want to buy one. You should buy it and let me know how works. :lol:

The Tracer doesn't do any battery monitoring so you'll need a battery monitor with either controller. Then you might as well get the Victron MPPT.

Bruce
2009 6.5'X11' TTT - Boxcar
All it takes is a speck of faith and a few kilowatts of sweat and grace.
Image
Boxcar Build
aVANger Build
User avatar
bdosborn
Donating Member
 
Posts: 5551
Images: 790
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:10 pm
Location: CO, Littleton
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby lfhoward » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:31 pm

If I do get a bifacial panel it will force me to clean the roof!

Image

:lol:
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
User avatar
lfhoward
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:10 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby lfhoward » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:14 pm

Today I acquired the stainless hardware I need to install the receiver hitch on the trailer. The piece of 1/8” angle iron will act as a backing plate and make the installation sturdier. The C-channel that is the trailer’s back bumper is already 1/8” thick, so this is probably overkill, but I would rather overbuild so the weight of the bike rack is less likely to torque the metal. The angle iron will be tied in on both the horizontal and vertical axis.

Image

The solar panel train of thought above is me planning for the future, but those mods will have to wait until I can save up for them. It’s good to have an idea of what to do next though.
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
User avatar
lfhoward
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:10 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby featherliteCT1 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:30 pm

Sounds and looks like that receiver hitch will be nice and sturdy!
featherliteCT1
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:54 am
Location: Southern Indiana
Top

Re: M116A3 Build

Postby lfhoward » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:58 pm

featherliteCT1 wrote:Sounds and looks like that receiver hitch will be nice and sturdy!

I’m looking forward to taking our bikes along with us this summer. In particular I would like to ride some rail trails such as the D&L trail through the Lehigh Gorge or the Pine Creek Rail Trail through north central PA. The C&O canal trail along the Potomac in Maryland would make a good bike trip too.
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
User avatar
lfhoward
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:10 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Build Journals

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests