The scenic II.. (Last update --April 9, 2010) Hatch Struts

...ask your questions in the appropriate forums BUT document your build here...preferably in a single thread...dates for updates, are appreciated....

Postby ktm_2000 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:13 pm

Thanks for the info on your fiberglass woes.

I was pretty careful about keeping the trailer dry before I got the first layer of glass on it.

I did have a couple of small spots which it seems like the finish layer of luan delaminated from the substrate. I've ground them down and put another of glass over the spots.

So far I have 6oz glass over everything and just went out today and bought 25yds of 1708 biax cloth and another gallon of epoxy. The plan is to cover just the top of the camper with a thicker layer of glass to protect the top in case of a tree limb coming down on it. I hope to glass the top saturday morning and then sand and fair things out and get primer on monday.
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Postby john » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:27 am

I thought I would give an update on my luan problem.

I have left the camper in the weather for the last month and it seems that the luan has stabilized. I have seen no new cracks develop in the surface.

I can only hope the issue has run its course.


On a secondary note, I have a blog that follows my family's trip this summer. I add a new day from the trip every few days. Click below....
Last edited by john on Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Build I -- Scenic ---
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8121727@N04/
Goto the Tear Build file

Build II -- Scenic II ---
viewtopic.php?t=29603

Build III -- Scenic Solo---
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=50324

Travel Blog----Now without Political Commentary
http://polifrogblog.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... -2009.html

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Postby Prem » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:50 am

John,

I REALLY admire your design work and superb craftsmanship. And what a trip you took!

Yup. Straight axles save weight and problems over stubs. Counter-intuitive. Stress relief on the chassis! Overkill on the weight rating is optimal.

I had the same problems with my teardrop skin that you are having with yours. I didn't use MDO plywood for the doors and around the doors on the exterior . I used half inch Meranti to get the nice wood look on the inside of the uninsulated doors. Even though I sealed the Meranti plywood edges with epoxy and glass beads, they still blistered and opened. Every year I had to dig out a blister or two with a Dremel rasp, let dry in August's low (14%) humidity and repack with epoxy filler. (Originally built in August too! Go figger.) I didn't have any of these problems with the MDO ply. That stuff is virtually weatherproof even without epoxy and fiberglass.

Build and learn. Trial and error correction.

There's A LOT to be said for skinning a rig in light aluminum sheet. I called my buddy Grant the other day to find out how he does it/which glue/which aluminum trim. Problems and maintenance are greatly reduced with aluminum skin. My current build will have it. (See links below.)

You're one of the best builders and designers I've ever seen. Congrats on a beautiful trailer.

Prem :thumbsup:
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Postby john » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:11 pm

Thanks for the compliments.

I hate to hear about the blisters being a continuing problem. I have considered skinning the roof in aluminum from the front frame back to the hatch hinge. Although, with the last couple of months passing with no new blisters I have begun to lean toward simply repairing and repainting. Perhaps I should rethink that again...

My first build was covered in aluminum and it has been essentially problem free. I wanted color this time, though. Unfortunately the color I chose looks like aluminum from a distance. (sigh)

I brought a roll of aluminum "duct" tape with me on the trip and have been pleased with how well it has held up. I used it on the blisters during the trip as a quick fix to stop the damage from spreading during rains.
Build I -- Scenic ---
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8121727@N04/
Goto the Tear Build file

Build II -- Scenic II ---
viewtopic.php?t=29603

Build III -- Scenic Solo---
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=50324

Travel Blog----Now without Political Commentary
http://polifrogblog.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... -2009.html

The Constitution was ratified, not an interpretation thereof...

Penomeli ikibobo
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Postby Prem » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:50 pm

My first build was covered in aluminum and it has been essentially problem free. I wanted color this time, though. Unfortunately the color I chose looks like aluminum from a distance. (sigh)


:rofl2:

I actually chose aluminum colored paint for mine!

:rofl2:

You could get really exotic and order purple anodized aluminum sheet to cover it with. It wouldn't look silvery from any angle!

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Postby john » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:41 pm

It's warm! Time to work...New update.


First off I'd like to mention how well the aluminum tape has lasted. I brought a roll of the stuff with me on our family trip west for emergency use.

I first started "fixing" issues with the roof with the tape at Ten X campground while visiting the Grand Canyon. I never expected the stuff to last nearly 9 months. It could have lasted longer.


I kept the camper in the weather during the winter. Sun, rain, snow, cold. I hoped the weather would bring out more flaws in the wood. I would periodically check the roof for new flaws so as to cover them with tape before any water damage was done.

Image


After removing the tape and sanding I was left with this.

Image

And here is a closeup of one of the bad spots.
Image


I am not sure what the problem was. Most of the bad spots are located on a single sheet and after prepping them I found they were usually knot related. They seemed to be related to bad filler by the manufacturer, but the filler could have been damaged by water intrusion. A couple were indications of a void underneath.

In the end I may have put one sheet on upside down. I will never know for sure.

Question:

In repairing this, would you first coat the area with epoxy then fill it in with bondo followed by fiber-glassing the entire area for a final coat ?

Or would you fill the hole with bondo then then fiber-glass the area?
Build I -- Scenic ---
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8121727@N04/
Goto the Tear Build file

Build II -- Scenic II ---
viewtopic.php?t=29603

Build III -- Scenic Solo---
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=50324

Travel Blog----Now without Political Commentary
http://polifrogblog.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... -2009.html

The Constitution was ratified, not an interpretation thereof...

Penomeli ikibobo
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Postby john » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:19 pm

I finally got around to moving beyond the scrap stick I have been using as a hatch prop.

I had bought a couple of locking hatch struts early in the build, but when I got around to installing them, my build precluded their use. There was not enough room for gas struts either.

The only place with the room to install a strut was near the middle of the hatch. The full extension length that was required and the limited room available for closing forced me to use a strut that telescopes. A one piece strut similar to my first build wasn't going to fit.

I wanted it to latch open automatically when opened and to be wind safe also. I didn't want the wind to catch the hatch and lift it enough to cause the prop to fail and let it fall. My prop only allows the strut to telescope when unlocked first.

This is the first prop of this kind that I have made and, unfortunately, it has suffered from my normal overbuilding. It looks a little chunky, but it works well.

I still need to line my hatch...

Here is a video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unMNp4f_BME

and pics...
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My previous one piece hatch struts from build one...
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Build I -- Scenic ---
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8121727@N04/
Goto the Tear Build file

Build II -- Scenic II ---
viewtopic.php?t=29603

Build III -- Scenic Solo---
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=50324

Travel Blog----Now without Political Commentary
http://polifrogblog.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... -2009.html

The Constitution was ratified, not an interpretation thereof...

Penomeli ikibobo
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Postby sagebrush » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:06 pm

Looks like it gets the job done! :thumbsup: I would say that is Yankee Ingenuity but you might be insulted. :lol: Will
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Postby H-Balm » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:12 am

cool work on those struts.
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Postby rlaggren » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:14 pm

You probably closed out the roof repairs, but thought I'd post for info.

I have had to repair my boat and from what I've learned and experienced epoxy with or w/out filler is the only thing to use where there may be moisture or any flexing involved. The close up looks like it still may have damaged and loose bits in it; even clean, the procedure would be to paint on liquid epoxy to soak in and then put the mix cup in the freezer to stretch the pot life. In about 30 minutes (if you're using fast setting hardener) the repair will have started to gel; get the cup from the freezer, mix in filler to make putty and apply. Letting the first coat of liquid gel makes for better application of the putty because it doesn't immediate dilute with the applied liquid; putting the mix cup into the freeze gives you just enough longer open time with that cup that you can make the repair using the same mix (assuming you used the minimum measured amount to reduce heating in the pot). I'm cheap and epoxy isn't so I don't like to toss any but it's hard to mix tiny amounts accurately.

Sheathing boats with GRP which is similar to what you're doing only more so and is considered problematic because it will quite often delaminate. Even with excellent product and proper application the epoxy will still be stuck to the top surface of the wood but the wood will separate; this could be because of moisture working through the wood from the _other_ side. Thus the attempt to soak the wood w/liquid first to get as much penetration as possible. When sheathing boats one expert (I can look him up if you like - I think - been 7-8 years since I referenced him) will sheath in 2 layers: The first layer of glass is applied and allowed to cure just barely solid. Then the whole area of applied GRP is _stapled_ to the base at 3"-6" centers using the longest SS staple possible; you gotta do this before the cure progresses too much or the staples will just bend over. Then the second layer of epoxy and GRP is immediately applied over the staples. This is all because the likelyhood of delam is so great.

If epoxy is left to cure past a certain point in will "blush" (develops a haze on the surface) and you must then wash the surface fully with water and sand to give the next layer grip; don't simply sand or you will grind the blush into the surface and next application won't adhere as well. Before the blush occurs epoxy layers will unite chemically which gives the best results. The time to recoat depends on the mix and you have to check with the vendor for thier instructions. For example IIRC West Systems needs to be recoated w/in 8 hours but it's been a few years since I did any real GRP work to don't rely on that - I could be remembering wrong.

An aside: When using GitRot by all means DO work outside and up wind and wear a respirator with chemical filters if you're doing much of it. The vapors are quite poisonous. As I understand it there is a serious trade off between the diluted penetrating properties of GitRot and final strength; West Systems does not recommend using that type of epoxy (they have a lot of experience and knowledge in the industry could sell it easily if they wanted) in most cases. By using slow hardeners and applying the epoxy at lower temperatures the open time is greatly prolonged so the full strength epoxy will penetrate almost as well as the dilute stuff.

West Systems has easily available How-To books which cover the territory extremely well. At the time I dealt with them their customoer service line was happy to answer specific application questions in detail. There are many other good info sources also and I just mention West because I've seen their publications and they are very easy to find - and also because of their great rep for support. If you called with explicit questions about your problems, you would probably receive explicit recomendations.

FWIW. Rufus
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Postby Vedette » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:27 pm

I enjoyed the read. Nice Job and nice trip.
I am not a wood worker so I admire your talent and the amount of work you went thru.
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