CNC Build -- Right Galley Trim Panel and Left

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Re: CNC Build -- Tambour doors for the galley - First look

Postby capnTelescope » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:07 pm

I built the first tambour door for the galley cabinets and gained some experience. In the sense that I didn't qui-i-ite get what I wanted. ;)

First the tracks go in:
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Here's the first look:
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Half open/shut:
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Mostly I was happy with the results, but it was no cigar. Here's what went wrong:
1. The slats are a half inch short. I blame the Ecuadorian Conspiracy.
2. I had to shorten (lower) the tracks about a quarter inch so the slats would fit under the top rail of the face frame. I think I'll fix this by making the slats thinner.
3. Raising the door doesn't go smoothly because the slats catch at the top of the opening, where the track slot transitions into the top front curve. This happens because the face frame acts as the front wall of the vertical part of the track, and there is a step at the beginning of the curve. I think some careful hand work will fix this problem. Maybe also because, with the slats too short, the front track is too exposed.
4. Some slats didn't fully stick to the canvas backing. This helped make problem 3 worse. Gluing the backing to the slats is a bit fussy, because too much glue sticks the slats together, and not enough causes this problem.

Knowledge gained:
1. I've proved the concept.
2. Now I know exactly how many slats I need--six less than I made up. However many that is. :NC
3. These doors are going to look pretty darn good when finished, IMHO.
I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Brad
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Re: CNC Build -- Tambour doors for the galley - First look

Postby noseoil » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:07 pm

Capn' it looks like it's a good idea & it's working. You might add a shim to push the tracks back from the face frame a bit more for more clearance (1/8"?). When we made this stuff, we used a laminate which was glued to canvas backing. The laminate was flat and made it easier to push up & down, plus the fit was a bit loose in the tracks because at times it had to go into a tight spiral above the opening. I don't remember how wide the slats were (mid 70's). Any one problem and it was a major PITA to deal with.

The handles were simple aluminum channel with a laminate strip glued into the channel to cover the screws, that, or we made shaped wood "T" molding for the bottom slat and fastened it from behind. Did you pre-finish the wood first? Was contact cement used for the adhesive?
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Re: CNC Build -- Tambour doors for the galley - First look

Postby capnTelescope » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:17 am

noseoil wrote:You might add a shim to push the tracks back from the face frame a bit more for more clearance (1/8"?).

I assume you mean for the clearance at the top. Making the slats thinner will do the trick for that problem. The other problem that I have with the slats getting hung up on the turn comes from using the faceframe for the front face of the track in front. This pic shows where I'm talking about:
Image
See the sharp point where the arrow is pointing? That's where the slats are hanging up. The faceframe serves as the front wall of this section of track. The plywood doesn't take kindly to being brought to a sharp tangent point. I think trimming the point at an angle will aid the transition.

noseoil wrote:Did you pre-finish the wood first?

Yes. Stain only on this one. On the front and top/bottom, but not the back. I think I'll try spray poly finish on this one before I go farther. This one's firewood anyway.

noseoil wrote:Was contact cement used for the adhesive?

I used TB2, although the article I read said not to. The author recommended Elmer's white carpenter glue or similar. I think I want something waterproof for this application. I might have used not enough glue. Do you think a contact cement might work better? I'm also thinking that applying the glue to the canvas, instead of the wood, might work better. It also doesn't help that you have to handle the tambour before the glue sets up, to unstick the slats from each other. I could also go longer on the glue cure before handling.
I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Brad
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Re: CNC Build -- Tambour doors for the galley - First look

Postby noseoil » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:40 am

We used contact cement (fast bond 30 is a water base which would work well in this case). The slats were all aligned first, taped on the front side, flipped and taped on the back at the edges only. The cloth fits between the taped edges on the back. Once the adhesive is applied, the cloth is set on the back. Any alignment problems can be dealt with on the table saw, to trim the edges if you have it longer than the tracks are wide. With the wood taped together first, the glue shouldn't be a problem in the joints and the contact cement sticks much better than the white glue or titebond.

We used milled aluminum tracks or plastic spirals, so there weren't any issues with sticking at edges or corners. You might try narrower slats to make the door slide better in the tracks. Also, the thickness of the cloth may make it more difficult to slide, so it can be removed at the tracks.

I like the way it looks!
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Re: CNC Build -- Hatch 3.0

Postby Ron Dickey » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:16 am

capnTelescope wrote:Did a quick mockup of Hinge 3.0. Results are very promising.
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I'm now getting a much better open angle. I may not have to worry about bumping my head, now. :thumbsup:

This design works because the hinge has a deeper throat. BTW, Deeper Throat :shock: is now a serious finalist in the Name This Teardrop contest. I wonder if I can get that on a license plate? :scratchthinking: DPRTHRT?

Thanks for stopping by! :beer:


I looked over your entire thread and wow :shock: you have had fun building this one. With the hatch you seemed to be reinventing the wheel. Good job I was however surprised that you reinforced with metal the arches but not the two sharp angles where all the weight is held. I had a AMC sportabout once and it had the wind catch the hatch one day. it had gas shock each side but they only kept the rear hatch from flying off. it snapped the metal hinges and I had to stick my hands in there with fiberglass sticking me all the way, ouch to replace them. There was a guy who drove all the way from Connecticut to california and on the way somewhere his hatch blew off had had to tie it on before he got to California. How will you keep it from getting higher other then the design of the hinge?

I love sing you build this unit. Very thought out and I love the little slide lock idea for holding the galley sliders in place.

Ron Dickey
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Re: CNC Build -- Tambour doors for the galley - First look

Postby capnTelescope » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:34 pm

noseoil wrote:We used contact cement (fast bond 30 ...)

I appreciate your comments here, Noseoil. I discovered that the "30" happens to be the price of a quart of the Fastbond. $> OTOH, there's countertop Formica to stick down, so hopefully a quart will be enough. It's ordered. :thumbsup:


Ron Dickey wrote:you have had fun building this one.

Hey, Ron. Thanks for stopping by! I've been following your interesting Crossbow build for some time. Yes, I have. It's hard to say whether the build or the build journal is the most fun, but it's a blast. Lots of things to keep the ol' brain in gear. :?

Ron Dickey wrote:I was however surprised that you reinforced with metal the arches but not the two sharp angles where all the weight is held.

You're not the first to note that, and I've wondered about it, too. :NC The rib reinforcements were borrowed from Grant's teardrops.net facebook page as a countermeasure to springback. That turned out to be a non-issue with 1/8" ply and 1/32" aluminum skin. Too late now. If there's a catastrophic failure, ... I'll burn that bridge when I come to it. :)

Ron Dickey wrote:How will you keep it from getting higher other then the design of the hinge?

Gas springs. That ratty 2x4 prop is only temporary. Also, keeping the hatch closed if it's windy. If the hatch goes too far open, it'll take out the top gutter. Not so good. There is some (unknown) upper limit to how big a gust this hatch can withstand. Hopefully it's higher than the hatch ever sees. Time will tell. :NC

Waiting for the UPS man. :whistle:

:beer:
I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Brad
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Re: CNC Build -- Look what came in the mail!

Postby capnTelescope » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:17 pm

:P
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:P

You can do it Tom!

:beer:
I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Brad
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Re: CNC Build -- Look what came in the mail!

Postby Sheddie » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:13 pm

Hi Brad,
Congratulations :applause: does this mean that you now officially own a teardrop? :thumbsup:
:beer: :beer: Frank
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Re: CNC Build -- Look what came in the mail!

Postby capnTelescope » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:04 pm

I own it, but it seems to own my garage. :D
I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Brad
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Re: CNC Build -- Look what came in the mail!

Postby Sheddie » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:46 pm

Just be thankful that Teardrops don't fly. I had a mummy blackbird set up nest in the shed a few weeks back, and produce about three chicks, s#@t everywhere. :x The wife wouldn't let me evict them. :roll: Thank goodness most of the cars and TD have covers, but now the babies are on the move too. They don't fly far, but every time they take off they engage the turbo boost.
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Re: CNC Build -- Look what came in the mail!

Postby capnTelescope » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:24 am

I have bird doo that I can't explain on the front inside wall of my garage. I guess they fly at the wall, bombs away at the last second, and fly off. Never see them do it. It's all over the wall, and often fresh new.

While we're on the topic:
Q: What's the white stuff in bird s#*t?

A: More bird s#*t. :laughter: (LAMOJ)

:thinking: If I changed the topic to "CNC Build -- Bird Doo" Would that get more or fewer views? :NC
I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Brad
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Re: CNC Build -- Look what came in the mail!

Postby aggie79 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:13 pm

capnTelescope wrote::P
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:P

You can do it Tom!

:beer:


Brad,

That is awesome! You've given me hope.

Take care,
Tom
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Re: CNC Build -- Look what came in the mail!

Postby capnTelescope » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:15 pm

Hey Tom,

Any prospects out there? I read somewhere that around the holidays is a good time to job hunt, because the competition isn't as bad. I'm squeezing for you.

:beer:
I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Brad
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Re: CNC Build -- Look what came in the mail!

Postby aggie79 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:21 am

Hi Brad,

The tambour doors are looking great! I wanted to do those on the upper cabinets of my teardrop but couldn't think them through. If there is a #2 build, I'll reference your how to on tambour doors.

capnTelescope wrote:Hey Tom,

Any prospects out there? I read somewhere that around the holidays is a good time to job hunt, because the competition isn't as bad. I'm squeezing for you.

:beer:


Thanks for asking. Last week, I had three interviews. This was from the first batch of applications I completed a month or so ago. So, I guess things are looking up. At the very least I am caught up on my honey-do list around the house - except for the last two rooms of crown molding - and have even completed garage/shop upgrades.

Enough of the thread hijack. Let's get back to your build journal!

Take care,
Tom
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Re: CNC Build -- Making the tambours

Postby capnTelescope » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:25 pm

Meanwhile, by popular demand, back at the build ...

After my half-inch-too-short fail on the first tambour, I was confident enough that they are going to work to forge ahead. This post will show you much of the process.

First, you take a wide board of your favorite wood. In this case, it's HD red oak. Cut it into pieces slightly longer that the finished tambour size:
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Set up the router table with a bullnose bit:
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No CNC here. This is the old-fashioned power tool method.

Rout the bullnose on both edges of the boards. Each piece of board yields two rough slats:
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On the table saw, rip cut the two slat blanks from the edges of the board:
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I forgot to take this pic until I was on the last set of cuts, so the board is almost used up. Let me explain what you see here.

Set the magnet block left of the blade for the desired front to back slat thickness. The bullnose goes against the magnet block. Bring the fence up to the workpiece and clamp. Make your rip cut. The slat exits left of the blade and the board to the right. Repeat for the stack of boards, turn around, repeat.

One complete pass through the stack of boards:
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Back to the router table and repeat the process until you have enough slats or you run out of wood.
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Four doors worth, stained. Upper left are extras in case some slats are warped or injured. These will probably become drawer fronts.

The stack of boards all came off the same plank. Here's a look at the end grain:
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When the slats are sliced off, they present a quarter-sawn grain to the world.

I'll present the rest of the process when the UPS man comes with my contact goo.

Thanks for stopping by! :beer:
I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Brad
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