The "SJ Cruiser" , a 5x10 benroy in the PNW

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The "SJ Cruiser" , a 5x10 benroy in the PNW

Postby yrock87 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:29 pm

Hi all, so my build was officially started this week. still not 100% sure on the profile plans but the steel has been purchased and the frame box has been welded. below is a link to my Introduction post which included my original thoughts of mimiking my tow vehicle (subaru outback) I have since decided that a 5x10 benroy is going to give me the usable interior space i need for the fold down bunk for my newest addition and the curved profile will make the build easier.



http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=64778

the plan is to keep weight down wherever possible. walls will be [1/8 BB ply, 3/4 foam, 1/8 BB] with a minimal poplar frame only around the perimeter at the door and at the rear bulkhead/ cabinetry. floor is going to be 1 inch foam and the roof/front/back will be 1 inch as well. the frame is 9.5 ft long and 58 in wide of 2x2x.090 steel tubing with a 2x3x.120 tongue. axle is a 3500lb with 2000lb springs. I may take a spring off once we know the final weight. the goal is 800lbs dry and under 1200lbs ready for the road, ideally 150lb on the hitch. this is all well within my Outback limits (200/2700) and I want to keep it that way. the axle is overbuilt for the trailer because of A. Cost. and B. the option to add brakes later if i ever add running water and other amenities to get the weight up over 1500lbs total. I drove a 2200lb trailer from Alaska to Washington with this car. It did surprisingly well, able to maintain (a relatively quick)speed on the steepest of hills, but if this is going to be a regular tow, i want the ability to stop without having to worry about it.

the thickness of all the foam is still up for debate, I may go to 1 inch walls and 1.5 or 2 for top and bottom. and my father may yet talk me into 1/4 ply for the floor.

I have a line on some 5x5 3mm Baltic Birch (B/BB grade) for $19 and BB/BB for $17. the4x8 stuff is $30 but is A/BB grade. the plan is to make the interior of the cabin 4 high using 4x8 and then sheath the outside (to include the ends of the floor and roof) with 4 ft 2in high of the 5x5 sheets. I havent seen the B/BB grade stuff yet. I am hoping that it is good enough to finish so that i can go with woodie sides. the top will be .032 aluminum.

I have access to quite a few RV parts and materials because my father, uncle and sister are all in the industry (even with that they couldnt get me into a manufactured tear for under $8000. but I have some Darco weatherproofing for the bottom, some LED interior and exterior lights and a sheet of roofing membrane. The cheap side of me wants to use the membrane but I like the traditional aluminum tear look and think i am willing to spend the extra $220 necessary to make that happen.

pics to follow
Last edited by yrock87 on Sun May 15, 2016 12:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The SJ Cruiser, my 5x10 Benroy build http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64944
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby yrock87 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:56 pm

The frame is coming together. Steel is home and welding is a happening.
Attachments
IMG_20151218_204146-480x270.jpg
Heading home with the steel
IMG_20151218_204146-480x270.jpg (42.88 KiB) Viewed 4367 times
IMG_20151218_204652-480x270.jpg
Frame welded together ready for corner gussets and spring hangers
IMG_20151218_204652-480x270.jpg (46.72 KiB) Viewed 4367 times
IMG_20151218_204726-853x480.jpg
Frame laid out for tack welding
IMG_20151218_204726-853x480.jpg (122.98 KiB) Viewed 4367 times
Last edited by yrock87 on Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The SJ Cruiser, my 5x10 Benroy build http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64944
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby Vedette » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:15 am

Before you go too much further.....you should check out the Australian (or might be NZ) standards for homebuilt chassis.
Especially tongue attachment. :thinking:
Good Luck with your build.
Merry Christmas
Brian & Sandi
Good Roads
Brian & Sandi
Here is a link to my Build Journal
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=50912
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby yrock87 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:16 pm

Vedette wrote:Before you go too much further.....you should check out the Australian (or might be NZ) standards for homebuilt chassis.
Especially tongue attachment. :thinking:
Good Luck with your build.
Merry Christmas
Brian & Sandi


Uhg, system dropped the response I wrote.

The short story is, thanks for looking out. I had the same concerns when my dad and I, along with a welder friend designed the trailer.

The composit tongue is made of 2x3 .120 (1/8inch) with the single main member filing back almost 5 feet to the crossmember. The two side "gussets" are also 2x3 and extend to the side rails. The weakest point is the 48 inches of 2x3 forward of the composit triangle. Even then I am within the Australian rules for a 1350 unbaked trailer. And since I am planning 950-1100 at the campsite and i will not currently be adding brakes (just keeping the option open and pre-wireing) I aught to be good. I won't be able to take it out to Baja and hit the dunes and gravel at 60 mph, but I should be able to pull her just about anywhere that my Outback can go.

Thanks for the constructive (pun not intended) criticism. Please keep it coming.
The SJ Cruiser, my 5x10 Benroy build http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64944
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby Vedette » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:03 am

Composit tongue?????? :thinking:
I missed that??
What I was trying to point out was how the triangulated pieces coming back from the tongue centre beam, should cross under your forward cross member and extend back onto the side rails at least 10" back.
And the direction of the welds to eliminate weakening.
I to used 2x3 1/8 wall for my first build.
Found it to be serious overkill (even though Miss Piggy was not build with "Off Road" as its primary use), so my new TD I down sized some of the chassis materials to reduce weight without really compromising its strength. :thinking:
Good Luck with your project.
Brian
Good Roads
Brian & Sandi
Here is a link to my Build Journal
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=50912
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby yrock87 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:55 am

Vedette wrote:Composit tongue?????? :thinking:
I missed that??
What I was trying to point out was how the triangulated pieces coming back from the tongue centre beam, should cross under your forward cross member and extend back onto the side rails at least 10" back.
And the direction of the welds to eliminate weakening.
I to used 2x3 1/8 wall for my first build.
Found it to be serious overkill (even though Miss Piggy was not build with "Off Road" as its primary use), so my new TD I down sized some of the chassis materials to reduce weight without really compromising its strength. :thinking:
Good Luck with your project.
Brian

Composit tongue, compound tounge. Whatever you want to call it, it is the diagnial pieces comming off the main tongue combine with said main beam. It is a composit of two techniques, straight and A frame.


Anywhoos. I will look into this welding guidelines to limit weakening. Unfortunately (or fortunately if you account for my lack of welding skills) the frame is being welded a few hours away at my dad's place. He and his welder buddy are putting it together off plans we drew up, then will register it as a flatbed utility trailer before driving it over around new years. Not ideal. I'm finding now that it is forcing me to determine the axle placement now opposed to building and then easily adjusting. Don't want to deal with having bolt holes in my frame

The 2x3 is only on the tongue members. And i would have preferred just using more of the 2x3 on the center main member but I was talked into using it for the two side gussets because then we could make the build with just three sticks of steel two 2x2 and one 2x3. I'm glad I went with 2x3 on the tongue. But looking at it now I could have reduced everything minus the main tongue beam down to 2x2 x. 090 and saved myself 20 lbs.
The SJ Cruiser, my 5x10 Benroy build http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64944
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby Vedette » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:48 am

That is what I did on my new build.
I used 2x3 .125 wall for my main beam. Then started reducing from my last build.
Where .125 wall was used (on last build MP).....I reduced to .100 wall
And where 2x2 was used I reduced to 1 1/2 x 1 1/2
1 1/2 x 1 1/2 to 1 x1 etc.
even down to the angle iron.
Total weight reduction was considerably more than 100 lbs.....????? :thinking:
I would like to see your chassis blueprint. (I will PM you my email address)
And axle placement? Remember the 60% to 40% rule and be close.
Changes tongue weight drastically. 200 lbs is nice for towing, but too much more makes it harder to move around by yourself.
Depending on you age :thinking: MP has 210 and she seems to get heavier each season. :(
I look forward to following your build.
Brian
PS
Your pictures are big for the Forum.
But I can't help you there, as I know more about chassis than computers and I weld better than I type. :roll:
Good Roads
Brian & Sandi
Here is a link to my Build Journal
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=50912
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby yrock87 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:33 pm

Vedette wrote:That is what I did on my new build.
I used 2x3 .125 wall for my main beam. Then started reducing from my last build.
Where .125 wall was used (on last build MP).....I reduced to .100 wall
And where 2x2 was used I reduced to 1 1/2 x 1 1/2
1 1/2 x 1 1/2 to 1 x1 etc.
even down to the angle iron.
Total weight reduction was considerably more than 100 lbs.....????? :thinking:
I would like to see your chassis blueprint. (I will PM you my email address)
And axle placement? Remember the 60% to 40% rule and be close.
Changes tongue weight drastically. 200 lbs is nice for towing, but too much more makes it harder to move around by yourself.
Depending on you age :thinking: MP has 210 and she seems to get heavier each season. :(
I look forward to following your build.
Brian
PS
Your pictures are big for the Forum.
But I can't help you there, as I know more about chassis than computers and I weld better than I type. :roll:


Well, we now have a chance to change things. Welding mishap when trying to rosset weld some strap to the bottom of the frame for the hangers to mount too. The .090 2x2 warped and it wasn't caught untill after several 2 inch welds were made. Frame is bowing down in the back several inches.

Time is money and for the cost of fixing it it is faster and cheaper to start with some new steel. My dad is thinking going up to .120 2x2 to be Abel to forgo the strapping at the spring hangers (installed for fear of the .090 tearing at the hangers if abused too much)

Im still wanting to go with .090 if it can be safely welded without warping. A 30 lb increase by upping the wall thickness doesn't sound like much. Untill you add up all those 30 lb increases and end up with a 1500 lb "lightweight" trailer

Hmm. Have untill Monday morning to figure out the thickness of the new tubing, any thoughts?
Attachments
IMG_20151220_090648231-640x360.jpg
Warped frame from overheating while rosette welding some strapping to the bottom of the tubing.
IMG_20151220_090648231-640x360.jpg (73.87 KiB) Viewed 4366 times
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby yrock87 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:44 pm

Vedette wrote:That is what I did on my new build.
I used 2x3 .125 wall for my main beam. Then started reducing from my last build.
Where .125 wall was used (on last build MP).....I reduced to .100 wall
And where 2x2 was used I reduced to 1 1/2 x 1 1/2
1 1/2 x 1 1/2 to 1 x1 etc.
even down to the angle iron.
Total weight reduction was considerably more than 100 lbs.....????? :thinking:
I would like to see your chassis blueprint. (I will PM you my email address)
And axle placement? Remember the 60% to 40% rule and be close.
Changes tongue weight drastically. 200 lbs is nice for towing, but too much more makes it harder to move around by yourself.
Depending on you age :thinking: MP has 210 and she seems to get heavier each season. :(
I look forward to following your build.
Brian
PS
Your pictures are big for the Forum.
But I can't help you there, as I know more about chassis than computers and I weld better than I type. :roll:



Pics should be better now.


by saving 20 lbs i ment for the front diagonals. the whole frame should come in right at 200lbs using primarially 2x2 .090.

Plan is for the axle to sit at 40in from the back, which is 33%. my weight calculations actually show that is too far forward. calculations show 36 inches from rear is better. the lightweight construction seems to be the cause. looks like the cabin and frame together will weigh only 500lbs before adding cabinetry, mattress, ext... that is taking the density of 1/8 ply+1inch foam+1/8 ply of .75 lbs a sqr foot. adding 20% for framing, ext comming out to .90 lbs /sqft. times 204 sqft of wall/floor/ceiling = right at 200 LBS, add that to my 200 lb frame and add in 100 lbs for additional windows/ door/ hatch framing & hardware and we are at 500.

how much do ya'll Galleys weigh? front cabinets? Ms Piggy looks great but i guess she isnt a great place for me to get these weight estimates? ;-)
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby KCStudly » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:04 pm

Be aware that any thickness steel that is appropriate for your trailer frame will warp, as you have found. Almost everything we add gets added to the bottom side, so all of those weld beads shrink as they cool and pull the frame with them. I clamped big angle iron along my main frame rails while welding the suspension components and tongue on, and it didn't do much to prevent it. 2x2 x .125 x 9'-8" lg and I had about 1/4 to 5/16 inch crown.

Some have propped the finished frame up on a curb or blocks and drive their TV on until flat again. Others build the box (cabin, which ends up a lot more rigid than the frame) and then pull the frame to it when they are married.

I used a jig table and hydraulic ram to nudge mine straight again.

You are better off working with what you have got already than you would be doing it all over again and getting the same or similar results.
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby Vedette » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:09 am

Too bad about your frame ??? With a MIG (which I saw in the background of your picture) you shouldn't have had any warping.
You should check into a Dexter Torsion axle. Probably save you money in the long run, and definitely will work better (On or Off road)Yes, Miss Piggy's Galley is extremely light, as there is only 4 small pieces of wood in the entire build (tool box lid, wine rack, and drawer sides).Counter tops and other components are all aluminium.
Miss Piggy weighs 1450 lbs fully loaded..... with Beer, Wine, Ice, Food, Clothes, Tools, and Camping Gear. :thumbsup:
Looking to trim 200 to 300 lbs off of that on Kermit. ;)
Brian
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby yrock87 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:34 pm

KCStudly wrote:Be aware that any thickness steel that is appropriate for your trailer frame will warp, as you have found. Almost everything we add gets added to the bottom side, so all of those weld beads shrink as they cool and pull the frame with them. I clamped big angle iron along my main frame rails while welding the suspension components and tongue on, and it didn't do much to prevent it. 2x2 x .125 x 9'-8" lg and I had about 1/4 to 5/16 inch crown.

Some have propped the finished frame up on a curb or blocks and drive their TV on until flat again. Others build the box (cabin, which ends up a lot more rigid than the frame) and then pull the frame to it when they are married.

I used a jig table and hydraulic ram to nudge mine straight again.

You are better off working with what you have got already than you would be doing it all over again and getting the same or similar results.



I really appreciate the advice KC. it is good to know that this type of thing happens. we seem to be especially good at it though, with almost 3 inches deflection on just the last 5 feet of frame.

Vedette wrote:Too bad about your frame ??? With a MIG (which I saw in the background of your picture) you shouldn't have had any warping.


Brian, it looks like the Rosette welds are what did in the frame. we took a 2 inch wide piece of strapping/plate .125 thick and welded it to the bottom of the frame as a sort of sub frame to help distirbute the forces of the frame hangers. i saw a thread where a guy had his hangers tear the tube steel and didnt want to repeat that with the thin .090 used in my frame. We drilled a 1 inch hole into the plate to rosette weld to the frame in addition to the side welds. those two rosettes got VERY hot and the frame bent there. the bend is significant at about 2.75 inches.

the plan right now (at my fathers insistance) is to reweld the frame. the tongue and hangers themselves had not yet been attached, so we are out about $60 in 2x2 tubing which he is going to use. One of the two squares of the frame is still actually square so he will use it as the basis of his new welding table.

we will clamp a piece of 2x3 to the bottom of the frame next time we weld the frame hangers. we will also forgo the solid piece of strapping in favor of smaller straps. and of course the welds will be much shorter, allowing time to cool in between.
The SJ Cruiser, my 5x10 Benroy build http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64944
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby yrock87 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:05 pm

Frame MK II is almost complete. You can see the 4'9"x4'10" forward (read straight) section of the old frame. Gonna make a nice welding table.
Attachments
temp_3-480x853.jpg
Teardrop shapped lights. Had to splurge on these even though they were NOT nice to the budget.
temp_3-480x853.jpg (102.43 KiB) Viewed 4135 times
temp-640x360.jpg
Frame all welded up on the bottom side. Time to flip and finish it up before mounting the axle
temp-640x360.jpg (80.98 KiB) Viewed 4136 times
temp_2-640x640.jpg
Frame MK II. Slow stitch welding and extra supports clamped during welding.
temp_2-640x640.jpg (144.94 KiB) Viewed 4136 times
The SJ Cruiser, my 5x10 Benroy build http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64944
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby Vedette » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:21 am

:thumbsup:
Thanks for the :pictures:
Brian
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viewtopic.php?f=50&t=50912
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Re: Started my 5x10 Benroy

Postby noseoil » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:36 am

Good job on the frame. I think of it as the foundation to a house. If the foundation isn't right, it makes a lot more trouble in the finishing stages. If it's good, then the rest follows well & things get done with better attention to detail, fit & finish. A lot of energy can be expended in fixing mistakes if the planning & work doesn't go well.

Enjoying your approach to the work & the frame looks very nice now. Keep plugging along!
Build log: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60248
The time you spend planning is more important than the time you spend building.........

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