20# tank to 1# appliances

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20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby GuitarPhotog » Wed May 08, 2013 6:16 pm

I recently bought a Mr. Heater Propane Hose assy to connect my 20# propane tank to my Coleman propane stove and lantern. Both appliances use 1# cans.

Is there some trick to getting the hose to work? Neither hose (one with a POL nut and one with an Acme thread) works with any of my 3 tanks or with either of my propane appliances.

I can't believe that there's an incompatibility, 1# cans are 1# cans and 20# tanks are 20# tanks.

I don't need to hear about refilling my 1# cans again, we already had that discussion, I'd like to make the 20# tank work.

Thanks,

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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby pmowers » Wed May 08, 2013 7:22 pm

This may be a stupid question, but when you say they don't work, do you mean that no gas flows, or the connectors do not fit the tank?

Mr. Heater has several types of adapters, their F273701 is designed for what you want to do. As I am sure you are aware, modern tanks have a mechanism inside to prevent leaks. You may have to make sure the lantern/stove/heater is turned off, then very slowly open the tank valve to get full flow.

I have a Coleman manifold tree that I use with propane lanterns and stoves and can routinely run 3 appliances at one time. I occasionally have to turn off the tank, give it a smack and then slowly turn it back on. If one of the appliances is open at the time, nothing lights.
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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby GuitarPhotog » Wed May 08, 2013 7:47 pm

The F273701 is the one I have. No gas flows to the appliance. The tank valve opens OK, there's gas trapped in the nut that escapes when I disconnect the hose from the tank. But the appliance doesn't seem to open the cut-in the appliance end of the hose.

The tanks all work with other appliances, so it's not the cut-off valve in the tank that prevents opening the tank with no hose connected.

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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby Dale M. » Wed May 08, 2013 8:35 pm

IF you do not have connector on tank screwed on tight enough, there will be no flow.... There is a internal valve in OPD valves that does not let propane out of tank even with valve on if regulator or connector (POL) is not tight enough to open internal valve in connection port.... You may have bad hose (connector) or are actually not tightening it enough at tank valve connection....

I would consult MR Heater if they are the manufacture of hose....

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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby Lonnie Mac » Wed May 08, 2013 8:39 pm

GuitarPhotog wrote:The F273701 is the one I have. No gas flows to the appliance. The tank valve opens OK, there's gas trapped in the nut that escapes when I disconnect the hose from the tank. But the appliance doesn't seem to open the cut-in the appliance end of the hose.

The tanks all work with other appliances, so it's not the cut-off valve in the tank that prevents opening the tank with no hose connected.

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Howdy friend!

This sounds like an OPD issue. My hose that I have has a normal regulator that attaches to the 20#er tank, then to a long hose to my appliance. No issues. These hoses you have do not have a regulator, so in essence, you are opening a full 20# tank into a non-regulated hose to a stop valve on your appliance. Too much, too fast... The excess flow shut off valve on your tank will have issues with this setup as it is part of your OPD valve if you have a newer(ish) tank. This is so you can't open a 20#er without anything attached and spew propane. Kinda shuts itself off for safety. Once it is shut off, you need to reset it. There are procedures out there to hook up your hose and appliance, bleed off the pressure in the OPD valve using the bleed screw to reset, (the one you see the propane guys use when filling your tank) and then you should be able to use it normally as long as it is hooked to your appliance.
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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby pmowers » Wed May 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Are you using tanks from one of the exchange companies by any chance? One of the area refillers (Amerigas?) had some problems with the OPD valves on their tanks, the threads were a little longer than other valves. This extra length meant that some grills and hoses would install tight, but not quite deep enough to trigger the OPD antileak feature. A friend happened to talk to the delivery guy and he had a bunch of tanks which had that problem.

It is possible that the acme valve on the Mr. Heater could have a similar problem, the connector being just a hair too short. If possible, I would compare the connectors with one that you know works. If you bought it locally, I would try exchanging the connector to see if another one works.

It has gotta be frustrating, kind of like an extension cord with a bad plug.

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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby aggie79 » Thu May 09, 2013 10:41 am

It may be urban legend, but I've heard that, when using a 20# to 1# conversion, you should not open the valve on the 20# tank too quickly. Apparently there may be some internal flow protection on the OPD that shuts down flow if it senses there is an open connection. I've had a Mr. Heater hose connecting a 20# tank to a portable gas grill for years and haven't had any problems or experienced what I mentioned above.
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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby GuitarPhotog » Thu May 09, 2013 11:10 am

Further data:

The tanks are from either Manchester (US-made) or another mfr. None are exchange service, I purchased them new. One is less than one year old, others range from 1 to 5 years old. All work with other appliances (grille and fire ring) both before and after testing with 1# adapter.

I have two adapter hoses, one with an Acme (right-hand thread connector) and the other with an old-style POL nut connector (left hand thread), and neither work on any appliance on any tank.

I've tried turning on the tank slowly. No difference. The tank and appliance connectors are as tight as I can make them. I know about the protection valve in the tank valve, someone triggered one when they tried to drain my propane tank when it was on the trailer over night. The easiest way to reset it is to just slowly screw in a POL fitting, it pushes the valve back into it's correct position.

I have filled out the "Support Request" form on the Mr. Heater web page but haven't heard from them. They don't list hoses and adapters on the support site product pick list, so I don't know if they saw it.

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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby halfdome, Danny » Thu May 09, 2013 2:19 pm

Are you sure your threading it into the appliance correctly?
At The Dam Gathering the lady who owns my 2010 TD was having issues with the Camp Chef stove & oven in her teardrop.
She was ready to give it away.
I found out she wasn't threading backwards until she heard a click from the starting thread and then turning it to the right until it stopped.
Last report the stove was working properly. :thumbsup:
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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby GuitarPhotog » Thu May 09, 2013 3:26 pm

halfdome, Danny wrote:Are you sure your threading it into the appliance correctly?
At The Dam Gathering the lady who owns my 2010 TD was having issues with the Camp Chef stove & oven in her teardrop.
She was ready to give it away.
I found out she wasn't threading backwards until she heard a click from the starting thread and then turning it to the right until it stopped.
Last report the stove was working properly. :thumbsup:
:D Danny


Only goes on one way, and both ends are tight. POL nut on tank is left hand thread, new ACME nut on tank is right hand thread. Appliance connector is 1"-20 right-hand thread and it's tight.

This stuff is pretty simple, and should work right out of the package. Still no word from Mr. Heater.

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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby Jerry Bleeg » Tue May 14, 2013 10:47 pm

Chas, I am interested in what you learn. I have experienced the same issue with my Camp Chef Stove/Oven. It always works fine when I use the 1# bottles, but when hooked up to my little 5# bottle, sometimes I get flow and sometimes I don't. I wrote to Camp Chef explaining the problem, but never heard back from them. I have resorted to using the 1# bottles and giving it the finger.

Danny, I don't understand what you were saying about the Lady at Dam gathering. Can you elaborate? I believe you use one of these Camp Chef ovens in your trailer and you were my inspiration to get one. Biscuits rock.
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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby GuitarPhotog » Wed May 15, 2013 1:48 am

So I spent some time with my dial caliper depth gauge and decided that the center post of the appliances are just about 0.05" too short to open the valve in the hose (the part that emulates a 1 lb can). I realized that I could fix the problem by removing a corresponding amount from the mounting flange on the hose connector. I ground it down with an angle grinder and finished up with a stone in the Dremel tool and it all works fine now.

I still don't know why the problem exists. The appliances (stove and lantern) are both about 10 years old, so perhaps the spec changed, or they were worn, or...? But I figured that I had nothing to lose since I lost the receipt for the hose :( and couldn't return it.

The problem seems fairly common, I med a guy at the DAM Gathering who was having the same problem. He solved his by tightening down the appliance end connector really tight. And last year at Lopez Lake the guy next to me had the same problem.

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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby eamarquardt » Wed May 15, 2013 3:40 am

Amflow fittings are the "standard" for quick disconnect air hose fitting. Harbor Freight, your source for cheap Chinese crap, sells knock off Amflow fittings. I bought a package of em. About only half of em worked with genuine Amflo fittings and with themselves. The fellow at HF just didn't seem to understand that there were manufacturing tolerances that had to be met.

So, I'd be wiling to bet your hose was made in China and was out of specs.

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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby Dale M. » Wed May 15, 2013 9:02 am

GuitarPhotog wrote:So I spent some time with my dial caliper depth gauge and decided that the center post of the appliances are just about 0.05" too short to open the valve in the hose (the part that emulates a 1 lb can). I realized that I could fix the problem by removing a corresponding amount from the mounting flange on the hose connector. I ground it down with an angle grinder and finished up with a stone in the Dremel tool and it all works fine now.

I still don't know why the problem exists. The appliances (stove and lantern) are both about 10 years old, so perhaps the spec changed, or they were worn, or...? But I figured that I had nothing to lose since I lost the receipt for the hose :( and couldn't return it.

The problem seems fairly common, I med a guy at the DAM Gathering who was having the same problem. He solved his by tightening down the appliance end connector really tight. And last year at Lopez Lake the guy next to me had the same problem.

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You are talking about removing material on rim of 1/20 inch male end of #1 canister adapter are you not?...

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One has to be fairly accurate doing this fix, because it is a sealing surface for seal/gasket of fitting that fits one #1 canister... Screw up on angle or not getting it smooth will cause propane leak at this joint....

It also could be the center post (on #1 pound fitting) that pushes on the schrade valve is too short (green arrow) and a very thin washer under center post (red arrow) could do same fix....

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Re: 20# tank to 1# appliances

Postby GuitarPhotog » Wed May 15, 2013 11:06 am

Dale, that's exactly the surface I ground down. And yes, I checked it carefully for leaks (with soapy water). I could not get the center pin loose - that was my first idea for a fix.

I will continue to check the fitting for leaks whenever I connect just for safety, but I'm pretty confident that I got it right enough.

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