Heating using the hot water tank.

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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby MtnDon » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:26 pm

The fans....
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004SB ... UTF8&psc=1


The pump....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Top-DC-12V- ... 5b0abfbe70

The hoses are faucet connection hoses with 1/2" pipe thread fittings.
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby bdosborn » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:52 pm

Way to go Don. :thumbsup:

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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby 48Rob » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:55 pm

Don,

How quiet is the pump?

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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby MtnDon » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:12 pm

The pump is very quiet. The fans are nearly inaudible. 19.1 dB for one fan. The pump is rated at <45 dB. Maybe tomorrow I'll get the dB meter out and see what it indicates.
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby lrrowe » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:20 pm

MtnDon, as Bruce said....way to go.
My gut tells me it will work.
I say this because I just went out to turn the 72W work light bulb off in my trailer. It has been 32 degrees for an hour or so outside. It is 27 now. The inside of the CT was 42 degrees and I have no ceiling insulation, just 1 1/2" of foam in the walls and floor. I think I will go back and turn it on to see what the temps are in the AM after being on all night.
Bob

First Post on Purchase of Trailer: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=60722
Hot water infloor and radiator heating project:[url]http://www.tnttt.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=54&t=62327[/

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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby Shadow Catcher » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:57 pm

I will be interested in your results.
I was working on trying to come up with a frame for the heater core since it will not be in a fixed position. The core is 71/2 X 83/4 X 2 and a single 120mm fan will fit nicely. The pump has shipped http://www.ebay.com/itm/290934852826
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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby MtnDon » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:22 pm

One of my ideas is to box in the core and fans; locate that in front of the shower stall lip/ledge. That can be seen behind the fans in photo #2. Use an expanded metal grill on the front to prevent toe kicks from damaging the fins. The height will work and the backside could have air inlets from both ends.
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby lrrowe » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:38 pm

MtnDon,
Do you see using a thermostat which would engage a relay at selected settings? Without doing much research, that was my thinking.
Bob

First Post on Purchase of Trailer: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=60722
Hot water infloor and radiator heating project:[url]http://www.tnttt.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=54&t=62327[/

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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby Socal Tom » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:09 pm

You may want to measure the inlet and outlet temps to see if there is room to slow down the pump.
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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby MtnDon » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:50 pm

lrrowe wrote:MtnDon,
Do you see using a thermostat which would engage a relay at selected settings? Without doing much research, that was my thinking.


I plan on using a 12 volt temperature controller, similar to the 120 VAC version I used on the slow cooker hack. My plan is to simply turn the pump and fans on and off together, at the same time. It contains a relay switch good for 10 amps. More than enough. I don't see a lot of benefit to having the fan turn on and off via its own snap switch or whatever. The system is so small I feel that is unnecessary and just another complication.
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby MtnDon » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:52 pm

Socal Tom wrote:You may want to measure the inlet and outlet temps to see if there is room to slow down the pump.
Tom


I'll decide if that merits more thought after the initial trials are over. I do have a PWM controller around here someplace doing nothing.
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby Socal Tom » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:23 pm

MtnDon wrote:
Socal Tom wrote:You may want to measure the inlet and outlet temps to see if there is room to slow down the pump.
Tom


I'll decide if that merits more thought after the initial trials are over. I do have a PWM controller around here someplace doing nothing.

I actually meant installing a flow control valve to reduce the water flow. It will also reduce the amperage draw since the pump will be moving less water.
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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby MtnDon » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:45 pm

Yes restricting the flow for an impeller pump does make it work less hard, as hard as that may be to grasp. However, I am also aware that works best for cool water. When restricting the flow of hot water, too much restriction can cause pump damage. And I have no idea how one figures where the limit is. In any event, at 0.66 amp as it is, I could run the pump and fans 24 hours a day for a week (a literal 24/7) and still have 50% of my battery capacity available. :) The KISS principle might indicate that valves or whatever might be an extra expense / complication we don't really need. We'll make many decisions as the test progresses. Thanks.

But then it is a simple enough job to place a valve inline when using the flexy hoses and measure the current change and see what happens to heat output of the radiator. Or I could use a restriction disc placed in one of the hose end connections.
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby Socal Tom » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:34 am

MtnDon wrote:Yes restricting the flow for an impeller pump does make it work less hard, as hard as that may be to grasp. However, I am also aware that works best for cool water. When restricting the flow of hot water, too much restriction can cause pump damage. And I have no idea how one figures where the limit is. In any event, at 0.66 amp as it is, I could run the pump and fans 24 hours a day for a week (a literal 24/7) and still have 50% of my battery capacity available. :) The KISS principle might indicate that valves or whatever might be an extra expense / complication we don't really need. We'll make many decisions as the test progresses. Thanks.

But then it is a simple enough job to place a valve inline when using the flexy hoses and measure the current change and see what happens to heat output of the radiator. Or I could use a restriction disc placed in one of the hose end connections.

That's why I recommend measuring the in and out temps. There will be a flow rate that optimizes the "cooling" of the water. It maybe just fine at full speed, but if you don't like the temp drop, it might be worth experimenting a little.
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Re: Heating using the hot water tank.

Postby lrrowe » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:39 am

MtnDon wrote:
lrrowe wrote:MtnDon,
Do you see using a thermostat which would engage a relay at selected settings? Without doing much research, that was my thinking.


I plan on using a 12 volt temperature controller, similar to the 120 VAC version I used on the slow cooker hack. My plan is to simply turn the pump and fans on and off together, at the same time. It contains a relay switch good for 10 amps. More than enough. I don't see a lot of benefit to having the fan turn on and off via its own snap switch or whatever. The system is so small I feel that is unnecessary and just another complication.



I need to go back and study up on your slow cooker temp module. Especially if it a success. Why reinvent the wheel?
Bob

First Post on Purchase of Trailer: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=60722
Hot water infloor and radiator heating project:[url]http://www.tnttt.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=54&t=62327[/

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