What next .....

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Re: What next .....

Postby tony.latham » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:53 am

aggie79 wrote:
John61CT wrote:I just hate wood for flooring, too heavy, ends up wet and stinky.


That's a broad generalization that in many if not most cases is not true.

My 6mm ply, 3/4 poplar framing and insulation, and 6mm ply "sandwich" floor is light. The outside ply is sealed with epoxy and automotive spray undercoating. The top (interior) is not finished or sealed. My floor has never been "stinky" except for some slight short-term initial outgassing of formaldehyde from the insulation and ply glues that dissipated after a month or so. Even when driving for hours in heavy rains, the bottom surface of the floor has very little moisture accumulated from the rain, and the moisture has never found its way to the interior of the floor, at least in the 8 years my teardrop has been in existence.


X2 here.

Mine has never been wet and it don't stink! (Redneckery added). My feet? We'll just forgo that issue. :oops:

Tony
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Re: What next .....

Postby John61CT » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:20 am

dancam wrote:Interesting idea.
The reflectex im familiar with is fairly soft, 3/8 thick or so and comes in a roll, is that what your thinking of?
Sorry, meant reflective Mylar type sheet, near zero thickness.

dancam wrote:I'm not sure what you would be using as a floor covering

deflecting the foam
I wasn't planning on flexible foam, but rigid, high compression strength like XPS or polyiso sheets. The underlying plastic grid has no real deflection at 18" spacing.

Not planning on regular chairs or stiletto heels 8-)

I'm thinking Johns Manville's fiberglass faced Polyiso would be pretty tough, e.g. sold at Menards.

But yes, good point. The floor covering doesn't need to be rigid, just strong, spread the load a bit.

My wall panelling will be PMF, maybe with screening rather than canvas, so I'll be experimenting along those lines anyway.
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Re: What next .....

Postby John61CT » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:28 am

Sorry I was out of line there.

I meant moisture from human habitation over decades, as those restoring ancient RVs can attest.

Anyway let's stick to maximizing strength while minimizing weight, never mind about my insult to lovers of wood.
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Re: What next .....

Postby GPW » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:35 pm

wooden board floor , fitted tight … :thumbsup: In testing , it’s performed better than anything else so far ( All Steel Cargo Trailer, 17 years old and counting , flooring still in great shape … and it’s unpainted … :o ) The trick is having a "drip edge" design so water never continually wets the floor edges … :thumbsup:
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Re: What next .....

Postby aggie79 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:26 pm

GPW wrote:wooden board floor , fitted tight … :thumbsup: In testing , it’s performed better than anything else so far ( All Steel Cargo Trailer, 17 years old and counting , flooring still in great shape … and it’s unpainted … :o ) The trick is having a "drip edge" design so water never continually wets the floor edges … :thumbsup:


Well said!

A drip edge is definitely a key if your walls end at the floor and the floor sits on top of the frame. The drip edge keeps the water from wicking between the floor and frame.

My walls extend past the floor to conceal the frame. To keep water from wicking or being trapped between the frame rail and wall extensions, I have a 1/4" space so that any splashed water can air dry.
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Re: What next .....

Postby KCStudly » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:59 pm

dancam wrote:... Glued with tb2 or tb3 thinned down a little for more work time...

Unless you are in an especially hot and arid location and your glue application ends up as tacky as it would in a more standard environment before joining the components, for a wood to foam joint I would strongly advise against dilution. Any extra glue or moisture you add will have to be absorbed by the wood in order for the glue to set. For panels, in my experience this worked best with straight TB2 and a very thin rolled on application.

IIRC I shut off the fan (area fan that I use to keep myself cool) and just worked quickly to roll out the glue.

I did a built up floor using 5mm (3/16 inch) top and bottom plies and 1-1/2 XPS. Probably had too many xmbrs, but they were cedar, so a bit lighter than other species. I figured that it ended up about the same weight as 3/4 ply, but was insulated and much more rigid. At about 9'-8" x 64" when I picked up one corner it only lifted about 1/4 inch before only the far diagonal corner was the only thing touching. That's pretty rigid compared to 3/4 ply, even cabinet grade birch ply.

Re: the idea of using multiple types of insulation with garden mats filled with GS, etc. the best advice I can offer is don't bother. Building a camper is a big enough project as it is. Whatever your plans, whether the simplest of simple, or the most challenging build ever, it will be more work in the end than you expected it to be in the beginning. Every time complication is added it takes more effort (time) and material (cost and weight) than if a simpler method or material is chosen. There is more wasted material, more errors to correct and, when dealing with the unknown, more experimentation needed (more time and materials). This is not always a bad thing. The journey can be the destination, but there is plenty of room for creativity as it is and it is a long enough journey that the "onion" only needs so many layers. How much better insulated/lighter/dryer could it possibly be, and is it worth it? Spend the time and money on better quality materials, design/planning, accessory upgrades, artistic creativity, and fit and finish.

Don't get me wrong, I love TPCE and the journey that it has taken me on; but sometimes when you are doing something that started out as "cutting edge" you get to a point where you are wondering if other options would have been less tedious and you just wish you were done already. Of course, YMMV.
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Re: What next .....

Postby John61CT » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:41 pm

I would be interested to links to more detail, especially drawings, on that drip edge idea.

But I can't see leaving any cold entry venting that can't be closed off, will be used in extreme cold and high altitude conditions.

I was planning on a completely flat deck for multi-use, then a camper / shell unit (walls and roof) as a removable module.
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Re: What next .....

Postby ghcoe » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:53 pm

No venting can kill you... :thumbdown:
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Re: What next .....

Postby John61CT » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:14 pm

I didn't say no venting, just going to be able to control it.
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Re: What next .....

Postby GPW » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:45 am

What KC said ^ !!! :thumbsup: It’s Never as simple as the drawing .

Tom , that Drip Edge idea developed after we’d seen a lot of “wet bottoms” :o Even a Dirt simple drip edge prevents many problems , especially in places like here that have a morning dew. ( or Rain) . I’d recommend we include that in ALL our designs . JMHO

Now looks like we’ll be having a good test of drip edges tomorrow … :roll:
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Re: What next .....

Postby John61CT » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:33 am

So using floor materials that don't mind water is sounding like a good idea.

I don't mind "wasting" time trying new things. . .
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Re: What next .....

Postby tony.latham » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:03 pm

John61CT wrote:So using floor materials that don't mind water is sounding like a good idea.

I don't mind "wasting" time trying new things. . .


A sealed floor made from exterior plywood will last a generation. Or two.

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Re: What next .....

Postby John61CT » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:29 pm

But it's a lot heavier than it needs to be.

Do they even make exterior grade 1/8th"?
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Re: What next .....

Postby dancam » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:50 pm

John61CT wrote:But it's a lot heavier than it needs to be.

Do they even make exterior grade 1/8th"?
Baltic birch, but only 5x5 sheets

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
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Re: What next .....

Postby tony.latham » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:17 pm

dancam wrote:
John61CT wrote:But it's a lot heavier than it needs to be.

Do they even make exterior grade 1/8th"?
Baltic birch, but only 5x5 sheets

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


The 1/8" Baltic birch I use can be soaked for weeks in a bucket of water and it doesn't change.

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