The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Atomic77 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:02 am

Looks like a great time! I respect the work, time and skill it takes to do it right! Unlike my way of destroying pumpkins, which includes tannerite, a quart of gasoline and a .30/06!

:D
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:09 am

:lol: That would be easier on the back, too. ;)

More good stuff from Eric here, including preparation leading up to the event.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:53 am

Let’s see if we can get caught up.

Last week sometime I started making paper templates for the inside of the TB. Rosin paper because I have the remainder of a roll kicking around. Started with the battery box bump-in doing the vertical partition and electronics shelf all in one pattern. Gum
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Then did the TB floor. The templates are worthy; somewhat like foam, you can cut away or tape on extra to work out the details for cutting darts or whatever.
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Shown here with the TB laying on its back, the back inside pattern with small notches at the top (foreground in pic) to clear the lid rails.
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Yesterday I continued making the pattern for the front and side panels, all in one piece. I had to adjust the dart cutouts where the fabric will change direction at the rim miters. At the front corner I cut too much and had to add back. Then I transferred that pattern to all four miter corners before I realized that “close enough” was not close enough for the two different miter angles; so I had to do those again. But in the end it was easy to transfer the different darts to mirror image simply by folding the pattern over on itself. Here the front has been cut to fit around the battery bump, and the skinny miter darts are detailed.
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With the TB lying face down on the bench, you can see the notch under the back rim (top of pic) and the side miter dart just below that (dark seam just below the upper blue tape).
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An overall look at the front and sides pattern in place.
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And here is a look with all of the patterns installed. The top edges run wild by a couple of inches. If I can get the fabric to do the reverse bend and wrap over the lid rim in one go I will. If not I will trim flush to the inside edge of the rim and wrap back over it when the outside skin goes on.
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Next I pulled the cellophane tape off of the remaining T-nuts, wadded up some balls of stretch wrap, screwed them into the threads, and trimmed off the excess. Here you can see one prior to trimming and another after trimming. I saw this technique on a Long-EZ build blog.
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I found that if I wrapped the long strands of stretch wrap in on themselves (similar to rolling cut edges of bread dough under to make rolls) to make the wads, and then cut from the outside in all around to trim them flush (rather than trying to cut the excess in one fell swoop), there were less stray strands and I got a nice tight cleaner plug.
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I figure that the inside of the TB will get plenty of rough duty so decided to go with 2 plies of the narrower 38 inch wide 6oz BID that Karl donated. This, and the fact that I will be working on inside surfaces were the deciding factors for continuing with the Poor Man’s Pre-Preg (PMPP) method.

Here, working on the back wall, I have laid out and cut the bottom piece of plastic sheet to size; and traced the pattern onto the plastic. I decided to lay all of the patterns with inside faces down this time. That way it will be the top piece of plastic that gets peeled off and I think it will be a little easier with less handling.
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Then I sized the top piece of plastic slightly smaller. I figured it would be easier to do all of the plastic pieces first, then switch to laying out and cutting the glass.
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Once done with all of the plastic, I went back thru the traced sheets of plastic and cut 2 plies each.
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Doing this repetitively, I started to get a feel for the preferred techniques handling the glass; keeping the threads as straight as possible; cutting along the strands as straight as possible to minimize loose strands; handling the plies from the corners (like Michael/Atomic suggested); etc.

The floor piece was just slightly narrower than the glass width, so I decided I could get away with less excess and laid that one out width-wise. Here you can kind of see the tracing showing thru the first ply of glass.
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Two plies.
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Once I had each pair of plies cut… four patterns in total, in the order I intend to apply them: floor, battery bump, back then front… I laid the top sheets of plastic back over…
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… rolled them up and labelled them to keep them clean and tidy until I have a full session to devote to layup.
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Turning back to the inside of the box, keeping in mind the concern expressed about epoxy not bonding well to wood glues (like PLP), I started peeling, sanding and cutting away wherever it had squeezed in or been wiped along the seams. The big bits I would slice with the steak knife along each face then pluck out the “worm”. On the flash areas, once hit with the sanding block you could see the whitish skin better and it could generally be peeled up in strips using the tweezers; or just sanded clean off. Here is a seam that I have started to work. Not too worried about chunking out little bits right along the seam as this will be filled in by the glass filleting during the layup.
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Here are some of the skins I was able to peel off intact.
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The same area after most of the PLP squeeze out has been removed.
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Maybe not necessary, but I was in there scuffing the surfaces anyway, and got a little obsessive.

Even though the small 1/4 inch bevel I left between the 1 inch foam and the 3/4 inch wooden blocking for the battery compartment vent wasn’t too hard to glass over; after looking at the techniques used in the Long-EZ builds I decided why not fair the foam around the power bulkhead blocking a little more? With the battery opening side clamped down to the bench, you can see the original bevel on the left (inside line), and the new bevel marked out on three sides. Here I have already started to sand the side on the right and the top (bottom in pic) back to the lines.
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And here it is after sanding back.
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Here’s an overall look at the inside of the box after going all around, scuffing and removing excess PLP.
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While moving the TB around on the bench it kept tearing spots in the plastic bench cover. After patching several holes with packing tape I decided that it was the sharp edges I had left on the block for the pull box where the main wire bundle comes thru the bottom of the TB. Spent a few minutes hand sanding the corners there, as well as softening the edge of the electronics ledge some more.
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Now for something a little different. On our Adirondack trip I bought a really nice hunter/camp knife from a craftsman working out of his home shop, Chase Axinn of Chax Knives (http://www.chaxknives.com/). I figured it would work in TPCE for food prep and other camp duties. Well Noseoil has been posting pics of a couple of his very nice blades, so I thought I’d share some pics.

I’m not a big fan of the plastic Kydex sheath, but it came custom fit to the knife with an adjustable angle belt loop.
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It’s a full flat grind carbon steel blade. I would have preferred a SS blade, but my dad always had carbon steel and they are easier to sharpen; and this knife fit my hand well and “spoke to me”. The grip scales are burled walnut.
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Blade length is about 6 inches and just over 10 inches overall. Not quite a chef’s knife, but plenty large enough for most cooking tasks, and beefy enough for camp duty.
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One of the signature items that really caught my eye is the custom “jeweled” pins. They are made up of SS wires inside tiny brass tubes clustered inside a larger brass tube that makes up the body of the scale pins. I believe he epoxies these in and then sands them fair to create the pattern.
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Chase does all of his own heat treating. Here is the etched label.
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The tang on this knife is a full 3/16 inch thick, tapering down from the drop in the tip of the blade. The balance is just perfect for my taste.
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Someday I will follow in my dad’s footsteps and make a handsome leather sheath for it.
Last edited by KCStudly on Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby dales133 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:28 am

Lovley knife and looks like youve got that tounge box all wrapped up,excuse the pun
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby noseoil » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:46 am

Thanks for posting the knife! Looks like a beauty & should be able to do whatever you need in camp or out in the woods. The burl is a nice touch & the pins are amazing to think about (time & detail work). If you make a leather sheath, don't store the blade for long amounts of time in it. The leather can trap moisture & cause rust if it sits too long unused in there with a carbon steel. Stainless is nice, but there's something about a fine carbon blade that's just very "earthy" & functional. I know it needs more work to keep it clean & prevent rust, but to me it's worth the trouble.

I'm not very fond of kydex either, but it does have its place & is pretty much impervious to everything you can throw at it. It's ugly but very functional. I still prefer leather for my handguns, never could warm up to the kydex stuff, just not right for me & my tastes. It's bad enough having a "plastic" weapon, but I do love the H&K's....

Your build never ceases to amaze me. The attention to detail & thoughtful planning are making it into a work of art. I hope to be able to look it over in person some day, but until then I'll keep looking at the posts & pondering the possibilities! Really like seeing the patterns you make out of paper, it's so much easier to know it will fit when the time comes to start laminating.
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The time you spend planning is more important than the time you spend building.........

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby tony.latham » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:14 pm

HOLY KR@P!! :o It's bigfooooot!!!! :frightened:


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KC:

That's definitely a Sasquatch arm! No doubt about it. You need to report this. Immediately! :? Did you even notice it?

Any strange odors in the shop lately? Tools hidden in strange places? Or perhaps an odd bite mark in a scrap of foam?

Tony :frightened:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Atomic77 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:27 pm

KC, that knife is really nice!

:beautiful:

I went on the website to check out the knives but I couldn't find pricing. Do you mind me asking what the price on one like yours would be? Thanks!
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:42 pm

It wasn't inexpensive. Depending on the type of steel and scale material, IIRC Chase said a typical knife would have something like $45 worth of material; more for Damascus and some of the special handle materials. I believe he said he puts about 30 hrs into each knife, after heat treating in batches. Then the sheathes.

The larger knives, like mine, cost more than the smaller ones, obviously. I can tell you it was the most I have ever spent for a blade, including my good Zwillings J. A. Henckels chef's knife. Frankly, I spoiled myself for my birthday, but when you consider the craftsmanship and the fact that the guy is basically working at below minimum wage, I thought $300 was more than worth it. No regrets.

I would not hesitate to say that all of the knives I handled were of very good quality, but of the ones that appealed to me, not all of them felt perfect in my hand. In fact the one that really caught my eye didn't feel as good as this one, so that was ultimately the deciding factor. It was as if what felt right to him was just a little bit different from what feels perfect to me. He does attend several trade shows, and, in addition to online, sells directly from his home, so if at all possible I would suggest buying in person. Otherwise his policies are well listed, and I got the impression that it is his goal to make sure the customer is well taken care of, rather than just "making the numbers". He would rather have you be happy and get the most out of your purchase.

I guess I should also say that I have no affiliation and no reason to promote him, other than the fact that I am a happy customer. We were driving along and saw a small sign out by the main road that said "custom knives". There is no brick and mortar store, just a true craftsman working out of his humble home.
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:36 am

There are some really great knife makers that are all but unknown .. Nice blade Dude !!! :thumbsup:
There’s no place like Foam !
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Atomic77 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:37 am

Yes very nice. Good price for a quality hands made piece. I'm very interested.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:41 pm

tony.latham wrote:HOLY KR@P!! :o It's bigfooooot!!!! :frightened:


Image

KC:

That's definitely a Sasquatch arm! No doubt about it. You need to report this. Immediately! :? Did you even notice it?

Any strange odors in the shop lately? Tools hidden in strange places? Or perhaps an odd bite mark in a scrap of foam?

Tony :frightened:


You know, now that you mention it, there have been a bunch of large flies in the loft lately. I just assumed that they were coming in for the winter, but I suppose there could be a pile of malarkey lingering around somewhere. I'll have to take a closer look.

Build update: No update. I didn't want to try to do the big layup inside the TB on a week night, so I spent this evening running the vacuum cleaner around and cleaning out some of the accumulated dust from all of the spackle work I had done. Tidied up inside the cabin some.

Keep meaning to order the TB hinge and draw latches, now that I have been issued a new CC. Did I mention that my CC had been pirated just before going off to the chunk? Scumbags.
Last edited by KCStudly on Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:16 am

noseoil wrote:Your build never ceases to amaze me. The attention to detail & thoughtful planning are making it into a work of art. I hope to be able to look it over in person some day, but until then I'll keep looking at the posts & pondering the possibilities! Really like seeing the patterns you make out of paper, it's so much easier to know it will fit when the time comes to start laminating.

Special thanks for the kind words! I am also impressed by your build and would look forward to trading stories around a campfire. :thumbsup:
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby capnTelescope » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:44 pm

KCStudly wrote:Build update: No update. I didn't want to try to do the big layup inside the TB on a week night...

I'm confident your methodical preparations will yield great results. :thumbsup: I'll keep my fingers crossed this weekend. :)

Onward! :beer:
I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Brad
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:49 pm

Thanks Capn. Your enthusiasm is always appreciated! :thumbsup:
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:05 am

I got a late start today due to a few “life” things that manifested, so rather than working late to complete the TB inside layup, I decided to stop before tackling the largest piece (the front and sides), but I still managed to get the floor, battery bump/electronics ledge, and back done. I may have a little more prep work to do to get the inside front and sides done tomorrow, but evening light in the loft is poor and I reasoned that I would rather not get epoxy in my hair from the opposite side when “climbing in” to do the last section. But that is jumping ahead to the end.

To begin with I cut a bunch of the plastic coffee cups down. Last layup I found myself having to cut a cup each time I mixed a fresh batch and I wanted to have more than just a couple ready. It is a lot easier mixing small batches in the cut down cups than it is in the full size ones. The cup bottoms are on the right with the cut off tops stacked on the left.
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Since I would not be able to reach the floor of the box with it sitting on the bench due to the high sides, and with the box sitting on the floor I would have to do toe touches to reach (back pain for sure), I propped the box up off the floor on a couple of plastic buckets (old cat litter tubs, actually) to get it at a better working height.

I used the ‘fast’ hardener for the first time, so tried to work at a steady pace, but with temps only in the high 50’s (high of 59 in the loft) I had plenty of time, even mixing up the largest batch of ten pumps (using the West System B-size containers and pumps). After a couple of minutes mixing, once spread out I never seemed to be rushed for time.

I worked out a little formula that would help me mix the right amount of epoxy for each pre-preg, w/o being wasteful.

Length in inches x width in inches / 36 /36 x 10 = the amount of resin in ounces needed for 2 plies of 6oz cloth. This converts square inches into square yards. The 10x factor is equivalent to multiplying by the 6 oz 1:1 cloth to epoxy ratio, then multiplying by 5/6 for the resin ratio (5:1 = 6 parts total, 5/6 of which is resin), then times 2 for the two plies. So basically I measured the rough outline of the tracings, did the math, pumped resin until I had that number of ounces (or slightly more since I was using full pump strokes then checking it with the scale… some would get lost to the plastic sheets and any extra would be put toward wetting out the dry surfaces, or filleting the corners); then I would add the appropriate number of pumps of hardener. This worked out about as well as I could have hoped, except on the larger back panel I was reluctant to do the prescribed 10oz batch, instead doing 10 pumps (about 7oz), then adding a couple of smaller batches to fill out (one at 3 pumps and the other at 2 pumps… so probably about the same in the end). In the end I needn’t have worried about the batch size at these temps and should have just relied on the calculation. I did use a full size cup to mix that batch, too.

Anyway, starting with a small batch of thickened, I filleted the corners around the floor using radius spreaders (just reminded myself to bring some zip lock bags to use the pastry bag technique and save some messiness). Then I did the PMPP wetting both plies out at the same time… no problem.

I kind of screwed up and got ahead of myself, peeling the plastic and laying the floor plies down on the dry floor without any wet coat, so I had to mix up another 3 pump batch and go over some areas daubing in some extra mix where the wood wanted to soak up, and the edge flaps didn’t want to adhere to the dry foam; but I think that worked out fine in the end.

Then I repeated. A small batch first, this time wetting out the battery bump with a chip brush; then mixing filler into the remainder and filleting the corners; then a calculated batch size to wet out the pre-preg. Here I have repositioned the box clamped on end on the bench. You can see the floor glassed and the battery bump wet on both the bulkhead and shelf surfaces.
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Here’s a shot of the corner where the wire pull box hole is. I skinned right over it and will trim out the opening after it has cured.
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Here’s the battery bump panel PMPP sandwich; you can see the sharpie pattern outline on the lower plastic sheet all the way thru both plies of glass and the top layer of plastic.
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Again, I was trying to work along at a steady pace, so did not take many breaks to take pictures, but caught the above during a glove refresh.

After the battery bump I moved on to the largest panel yet, the back. As expected, I had some trouble getting the wrap on top of the rim to lay down. This was partly my stubbornness wanting to keep the radius on the cedar small, and not wanting to lay this up separately on the bias. Also, when I wet out the foam panel before applying the cloth, I didn’t think to paint the top of the rim. I tried to daub on some extra wet and used my gloved fingers to press it back down repeatedly, but it kept springing back up (as foretold). If I tried to squeegee the top part it would pull the reverse corner under the inside edge of the rim, but if I held that inside corner down with a finger and used the forefinger and thumb of my other hand I could kind of pinch the corner of the rim back down until it started to get a little tacky. Still, I expect it will have lifted again after I left, so will probably end up sanding it back tomorrow. Here it is after trimming most of the excess off, but before pinching the corner again (shown laying on its back).
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Here’s another look after trying to get it to lay down on the cedar better.
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And here is a better look at how it tucked into the bevel at the foam filler strip that I glued in under the rim.
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Lighting was poor and my head lamp didn’t seem to cast much light, so I took some flash photos looking for any trouble spots. Here is the acute angle where the battery bump meets the back wall (orientation still lying on back of box).
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A blurry shot where the electronics shelf meets the back and curb side.
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Street side back and floor.
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And a longer shot of the curb side.
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It’s getting there. As a confidence building piece I am gaining more and more confidence, just getting organized with the tools and techniques. Even though I won’t be using the PMPP method on the main cabin, I am still getting used to the rest of it, so that is a good thing.

Tomorrow I will trim a few small fibers that lifted, remove amine blush, sand back any trouble spots, and do the remaining 3-sides panel; the front and sides.
Last edited by KCStudly on Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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