The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

[KCStudly]

I suppose I could have propped the TB up off of the rim after glassing it in order to do the glass on the back, but it just made more sense not to risk disturbing the rim layup. So I didn’t get as far as I had thought I might today, but I am very happy with what I did get done.

Before jumping into the layup, I had to remember that I hadn’t rough cut the glass pieces for the back section of the rim, or made the plastic prepreg sheets for it. I took a corner off of that extra yard of 60 wide, again cut on a 45 deg bias. Conserving a little bit of the big piece, rather than cutting the corner off then taking two 5 inch wide strips, I only cut in as far as I needed to get one full length piece, then cut two shorter lengths out of the cut off corner, planning to butt those for the first ply, then cap with the full length piece. Another of the deciding factors to do it this way is the fact that I plan to lay the first layer on the galley hatch on a bias and I wanted to get a little experience butt joining seams. No special technique used here, just laid the edges as straight and close together as I could and tried not to disturb the alignment during the wet out and placement stages. The PMPP technique used here really helped with that, so I guess I didn’t get as much experience as I could have, but it came out good and I am getting more and more practice.

First I calculated the batch size for the rim pieces, all of them are two plies, remembering to divide the length x width calculation for the triangle shaped prepreg (the front and side pieces of the rim) in half when calculating its area. Here’s a previous pic of the bottom plastic sheet with the pattern tracings on it as a reminder.


It came out at just under 8oz’s of resin. Eleven pumps ended up just over 8oz’s, so that’s what I mixed. Then I poured most of it out on the big triangle piece and the rest along the long narrow back piece. After working it into the triangle piece I realized that I probably needed less on it and more on the back piece, so it was a simple thing to scoop up the excess with the credit card and move it over to the other layup.

I had to keep moving here, so no pictures along the way. Once all of the rim pieces were wet and cut out, I mixed another 3 pump batch of wet and brushed that all along the rim and down both the inside and outside by the width of a 2 inch wide chip brush. Also, shoved some in that little loose flap that I had at one of the rim corners, and a few little spots inside the box that needed a little touch-up.

Then I started at the front and worked my way toward the back, shingling the pieces on one at a time, peeling the top plastic off, wrapping them down the sides and overlapping at the corners.



As I was going around tapping out the little air pockets with the credit card, the rear corners where the rear rim piece overlapped the sides by about 1/8 inch kept sticking out. Where the other parts wrapped around 1-1/2 (on the outside) to 2 inches (around the rim contour on the inside) it was no problem going over the 1/4 inch radius because there was plenty stuck down to keep it from pulling back up again; but here where I had intended for it to be flush with the edge, and it had run long by just a bit, it kept springing back up.


So after going around and making sure I was happy with everything else, trying to accelerate the cure a little with a hairdryer, and still having it lift, I figured I could either just sand it off later or try a little poor man’s peel ply; packing tape. It’s hard to see the tape at all, and I hope it comes back off easy later, but it seemed to do the trick… at least so far.



All in all I’m very pleased with how this layup went!

[tony.latham]

As usual, KC, it's looking beyond great.

I caught the mention of the Magruder Road in your post a ways up ––when you peeled the cured laminate off your test piece. Forget it. You're not going to have a problem with the fiberglass on that trip. Just bring something to cut a downfall. Lions and tigers and bears? Sure. But that's what the trip is for.

Tony

[KCStudly]

Thanks Tony. Yeah, I know that kind of damage is really unlikely on the Magruder. I was just playing devil's advocate there. I'm trying to decide if a big 36 inch bow saw (like my dad would bring) and axe are sufficient, or if I should make room for the chainsaw.

I really don't want to have to deal with the stinky gas and bar oil mess that comes along with that; not to mention the space that it would take up in the Jeep.

So axe, hatchet, small folding pruning saw, and the bow saw should probably be more than sufficient. Yeah there is a chance of a tree or limb fall across the road, and a chainsaw would probably be the least effort and fastest method, but the trade off is in ease of storage and transportation. I think a little more time and exercise running the bow saw is a low risk option. Also, I'm thinking there should be plenty of small dead wood to collect for evening campfires and cooking needs. I'd rather do the work than have the chainsaw drown out the sound of the crick babbling.

Still, we'll see how the final pack out goes later.

[Atomic77]

The glass is looking nice.

[KCStudly]

Thanks Michael. From a couple of guys with a lot of experience in composite construction, that really means a lot to me.

I'm glad I decided to do the TB first, though. It is definitely helping me get used to the products and techniques that I will need to be able to do a good job on the cabin.

[tony.latham]

I really don't want to have to deal with the stinky gas and bar oil mess that comes along with that; not to mention the space that it would take up in the Jeep.

I wouldn't either. A sharp axe and maybe a tow strap to drag (yeah, while you're backing your trailer) something out of the way. There's enough traffic on that road that somebody with a chainsaw will come along sooner or later. Maybe later, but you've got a bed.

T

[KCStudly]

Yup, we're on the same page. The axe is sharp.

[OP827]

Really nice layup KC. About this packing tape, I also found it worked good for situations like this, but it will leave all its sticking goo on the layup after epoxy cured and tape removed. What worked for me the best so far to remove it is a mineral paint solvent to soften the goo and then scrape it out and wipe with paper towel to check for ensure no sticking residue leftover, repeat as needed. But you may have your own favorite method developed, of course.

[KCStudly]

Thanks for the heads-up on that. After the fact, I wondered if it would have been equally effective to use the back side of the tape instead of the sticky side. The epoxy seemed to have some tack at that point, it was just a matter of the short fibers being too stiff without enough extra to hold them down.

The other option would have been to try and trim them off wet some how, probably with scissors, but at that point I figured I could do more harm than good lifting an edge. It probably would have stuck back down fine, and yes, I probably am over analyzing, but paying attention to the details makes for a better job (old mantra).

[sincere01]

I haven't ever really commented here but I have been watching your build daily. It's looking beautiful. It's really exciting to see this thing progress.

[KCStudly]

Thanks Scott! I appreciate your support. I am regularly on the build 6 days a week, at least a couple of hours on 4 out of 5 week nights, and at least 4 hrs each on Sat & Sun (usually longer), so there is usually something I can report on. It may seem tedious or redundant at times, but I like to use the build thread more like a diary than a build summary.

At one point last year I figured I'd have about 4200 man hours into it by the time I was done, but have never really kept any kind of accurate account. Maybe not all of those hours have been what one might call productive, but you have to sit and stare sometimes while mulling things over in your mind (call it designing), or "consulting" (with Karl, in my case) over the more complex things.

After at least 400 man hours of CAD design time (about one calendar year), with one major revision, the build was started the second week in Feb 2012. For the first couple of years I hit it hard putting in about 24 hrs/week most weeks. This past year I'd say I have slacked off a bit, maybe as few as 16 hrs some weeks, maybe averaging 18 hrs/week. By my math that's reaching the estimated 4200 man hours plus a tick (4224 hrs give or take a few).

I figure 7 more months, or another 546 man hours. That would be 2 full man years!

That is just shop time and doesn't include shopping for materials, downloading close to 6750 pics or blogging here.

Some say crazy, but it sure has been a fun ride so far!

[KCStudly]

Just a quick update on the TB rim. The packing tape wanted to tear into little slivers and was really hard to see relative to the epoxy. What ended up working for me was to scuff it up with 100 grit; this broke thru the cellophane and allowed the mineral spirits to get thru to the adhesive. Then a small paint scrapper took what was left off easily. The paint scrapper was also useful for popping off the drips that had run down the insides from brushing extra wet around the top.

Before washing the amine I like to go around with some sandpaper and hit any little jagged edges and spikes that the greenie pad would otherwise catch on, or that could be a hazard to my fingers. (I’m happy to report that these occurrences seem to be diminishing as I get better with my layups.) After scrubbing the amine with water and greenie pad, and wiping it all down with paper shop towels, I used the small hand block to blend the slight steps where the plies overlapped. Other than one small spot on an inside corner that somehow managed to not get covered (will be easily filled during the next layup), I am very pleased with the outcome.

[OP827]

Looking great KC.

[KCStudly]

Thanks, OP!

[KCStudly]

Another night at the shop, another glass layup done. This time the back of the tongue box. I had thought that I would only bother with a single ply here. Since the back of the TB will only sit about an inch in front of the locker bump out it won’t be subject to damage from much of anything, but somewhere along the way I prepped 2 plies, so 2 plies it is.

I arranged the plies so that the selvage edges were staggered slightly, but still overlapping the wrap from the rim cap (top of box at right in photo). I have read that you shouldn’t use the selvage edge, that it should be cut off, but this cloth has a nice soft edge that is straighter than I can cut and much less likely to fray during wet out; so I let it be.


After getting the glass positioned where I wanted it, I gently folded the top edges back off of the rim cap so that I could lay a little thick along the small step there.


At the bottom I had left quite a bit of extra cloth when I did the rough cut, too much really. I folded the top ply back and cut the bottom ply to within about 1-1/2 inch from the bottom for a nice wrap under. Then I realized that would put the “step” half under the rear rubber mounts. So I made semi-circular cuts to clear the footprint of the mounts.


This put the edge of the cut very close to the floor radius, so I decided to let the second ply run longer, to both stabilize the first ply at this location, and so that it would extend past the mount leaving a flatter surface. So I trimmed this ply just inside of the stiffening rib. Also note in the previous pic that I could have left the mount thread cleanup until after this step, as I had to plug them with stretch wrap again, and will have to drill them out again later.


I calculated 10oz’s of resin to wet out the cloth, but doing it dry on dry I figured that I might need a little more for “absorption”. I figured if I did 8oz that would get me pretty far along without running too much off the edges, then a couple more 3 pump batches to get the perimeter and the bottom wrap. On the main back panel I mostly used the credit card squeegee; with Karl following behind using the finned roller to fine tune some areas and the radius edge. Then I switched to a chip brush to dab the last one pump batch into the bottom wrap (in the vertical position with the box laying on its front).





The white area to the lower left of the battery vent hole is a spackle smear, not a dry spot. I’ll trim the glass out of the hole using the serrated steak knife after the cure.

One thing we noticed was several small oval shaped spots that kind of looked like dry spots, but weren’t. The best I could tell was that they may have been small dents that filled with epoxy and floated the glass over the top; or they may have been small loose strands of glass thread that wadded up into “puddles” from the squeegeeing action. I’ve seen this before where you see a little puddle, and try to drag it out, only to find that it is a small wad of fiber that you can pluck right off. The stray threads along the stiffening rib will sand right off later and weren’t worth fighting or getting the scissors wet for.

I had kind of been holding off using the finned roller because I wasn’t looking forward to cleaning it up afterward, but with the controlled cloth to epoxy ratios there wasn’t a lot of excess epoxy, so there wasn’t a lot of mess to clean up. Just a little acetone on a paper shop towel did the trick.

I’m happy with this layup!