The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

Moderator: eaglesdare

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby KCStudly » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:59 pm

For the radii on the U-Joint and clevis ears I was just going to snipe off the corners using the band saw or a cut off wheel and then grind and sand them to a scribe line. However, Karl convinced me that we could do a more accurate and professional job if we milled them using the rotary indexing table.

So I did a small task this evening and made the alignment pin that will allow us to index these parts to the center of the rotary table.

Here's the alignment pin blank.
88840
The caption for this photo was going to be, "Fit this in here", but I was mistakenly looking at the hole in the hub instead of the holes in the ears. Thankfully I caught the mix up before completeing the turning and the only thing that got screwed up was the photo. The 1 inch OD pin fits the rotary table and needed to be turned on one end to fit the 7/8 ID holes for the bronze bushings.

Selected a 1 inch collet.
88841

By using a collet chuck I was able to grab the small work piece much more accurately without defroming the surface of the pin.
88842

Faced off the end (not really necessary, but good std practice).
88843

And started turning the diameter.
88844

Once I had it turned down to a nice slip fit I dressed it with a piece of emery cloth.
88848

Double checked fit before removing from chuck.
88845

And a couple of mock-up shots.
88846
88847

Hope to make a whole bunch more progress tomorrow (Saturday).
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9616
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby GPW » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:24 am

Pretty Amazing KC !!!!! We can only look and drool .... 8)
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14912
Images: 546
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby Martinup » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:41 am

Hi: KC

I like your work. It takes a lot of dilligence to be an engineer. It is nice to hear the standard disclaimer presented in a nice humble manor. According to your SWAG ( Suffisticated Wild Ass Guess).

No disrespect intended At All. There is just a lot of sciences to study and truely understand and that takes a lot of patience presistence and knowledge to understand. Hats off to you.

Kudos and thank you much for sharing that really cool WAY BETTER than Pintle Type hitch. I just reviewed really quickly through the pics and will go back later as time permits.

I for one will be asking you for it on my next build ... It is definately worth purchasing or replicating. :thumbsup:

I will follow your build,

Martin
Martinup
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 115
Images: 36
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:15 pm
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby KCStudly » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:19 pm

GPW & Martinup, Thank you for watching and the kind comments. :)

Karl is out of town this weekend and we failed to make prior arrangements for me to get into the shop, so I will spend time ordering components.
Jack feet for the rear
http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Jack/Domar/TJ01RT.html
and the lever handle
http://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Atwood/80480.html
I realize this is just a piece of round bar, but it is brite zinc plated, and that will help prevent rust and help keep it clean, making it worth the couple dollars.

Decided to commit to the Jeep YJ (1987-96 Wrangler) leaf springs
http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1580
However, their online pricing says $87, but the shopping cart comes up at $97, so I will have to call during the week to speak with a human.
(Will link to here from the Off Road thread where I asked for help with leaf spring info.)

Am also looking at these heavy duty prefab spring mounting components.
Spring hangers http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/3-HANG.html
Shackle Hangers http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/WBHGR.html
U-Bolt Plates http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/25J-UPLT.html
Shackle Plates http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/4SHK.html
Shackle end spring bushing http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/BUSH-RE.html
Probably overkill (not light weight), but the quality looks good...and I will most likely add shock mounts to the spring plates, so I want those to be rugged. I suppose I could make all of these parts for a lot less money, but that would also take a bunch of time. The individual prices aren't that bad :thinking: ...until you start adding it up :roll: ... starting to see why the trailer-in-a-box option is so popular to so many.

The way they list their sizes for the different spring widths is about as clear as mud. They imply that the hangers are 1/4 inch larger (1/8 inch per side) than the springs, and yet the bushings are listed separately as having 1/4 inch thick flanges. When I called to speak with a sales rep he answered the phone while asking someone else for a sugar free Red Bull...gave us a bit of a conversation starter...if I had not been in such an accommodating mood, I suppose this could have been considered rude, unprofessional in the least. So I gave him a brief on what I was trying to do and the laundry list of parts that I was looking at, and asked for help selecting the correct width hangers and shackle bushings for the YJ 2-1/2 wide springs. He said that he also finds it confusing, hasn't been able to figure it out since he started, that he gets these calls all the time and wants them to fix the website. I asked him if he could pull some of the parts and check them. He asked me to call back when I had the springs in hand and they would help me figure it out. A sales guy who turns down a sale rather than just selling me something right-wrong-or-indifferent? Not sure what to think. But the company was recommended by someone on this site (CaseyDog maybe?) and their quality looks good on-line, so I will work with them for now and see how it goes.
Last edited by KCStudly on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9616
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby BC Dave » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:40 pm

...omg.... :frightened:

... waow .... Im following your progress; intresting;

Im not sure; correction Im sure, I wouldn't have the patience for all the ... time and ....work and ...pics and posts; but its intresting to see what and how your doing it; and Im just skimming your posts and pics; Tanks!

I can see your enjoing the work; "you go bro"

:beer:
Last edited by BC Dave on Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BC Dave
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 247
Images: 13
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:32 am
Location: BC, Canada
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby KCStudly » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:02 pm

Thanks BC Dave, (I think :roll: )

I suppose my enthusiasm for the documentation and sharing might slow down as the weight of the whole project bears down on me, but at least for now I am using the excuse of getting positive feed back, and having a thorough record of the integrity of the build as my motivators. :thumbsup:

I have gained so much entertainment value from reading about and following other peoples builds, that I think it's only fair to give back. :D

Don't let the grandiose words fool you; that's just from doing too many crossword puzzles and trying to write creatively. I don't really talk that way. :FNP

I have been accused of being verbose in my writings, and having a penchant for details in general, but to meet me I think you would find that I am just a regular guy.

...with 'The Knack' (referring to a little technical insight from GPW).
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9616
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby GPW » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:00 am

KC, I know many Engineers (my FIL was an Eng. ) and have learned Engspeak’ ... am able to communicate on a simple level with only a modicum of difficulty ... :lol:

KC, what are you going to do to protect those beauty metal parts from combining with oxygen... ???
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14912
Images: 546
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby Martinup » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:04 pm

Hi KC:

I studied the leaf spring set ups quite a bit. I finally settled for the Flexiride 3500# set up. FYI I know you know alot about dynamic and static loads. After I ordered our set up I spoke to the satelite wharehouse manager. A nice lady with experience in the whole array of axles. Anyway she spoke about towing horse trailers and how much calmer the horses were on the torsion supension system compared to a spring set up. When one wheel hits a bump the whole trailer gets affected with a spring set up. A horse feels this and will kick and fuss . . . your trailer just doen't say anything.

Your hitch set up will make your trailer a nice semi independant unit from your tow vehicle. I am just pondering your reasoning as the trailer will be more connected from side to side. Unless I am missing something aren't you kind adding a twist or force on the entire trailer body and frame. Of course the body and chasis will obsorb all of this but why stress it at all if you can absorb this right at the source which is the iddler arm of a torsion axle? Just thoughts.

I enjoy the process as much as the end reult.

Happy building,

Martin
Martinup
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 115
Images: 36
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:15 pm
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby KCStudly » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:37 pm

GPW,
Karl is trying to convince me to run all of the pieces that we can through the "Time Saver" before we weld them together. The Time Saver is basically a really big conveyor driven belt sander similar to a wood planer. His argument is that this is the easiest way to remove scale and prep for paint (adding ‘tooth’). Then I will probably use POR 15 rust encapsulating paint and the POR UV top coat. I really liked how this went down on my car trailer, after power wire brushing. It had lots of minor surface rust from sitting out for years before I finished it and the POR grabbed on and gave a nice durable finish. The black POR will tie in nicely. I'm thinking the color scheme will be thin black scallops around the nose, floor and roof line, with the main body being a lighter silver or gray (to reflect heat). The Jeep is black, so I want to tie into this color scheme without making it have too much black and attracting heat.

Martinup, (don't read this as too matter of fact, I mean it lightly, in a Jack Webb, "Just the facts, ma'am" sort of way.)
Not exactly clear on what you are referring to, but my thoughts on leaf springs vs. rubber torsion trailing arm axles are this:
(1) The rubber torsion has been reported to give a nice cushy ride on the street, even without shock absorbers, but several off roaders have had problems with premature isolator failures.
(2) The only way to remedy trouble with a torsion axle on or off road is total replacement of a significantly costly made-to-order part (i.e. long lead time).
(3) Common varieties of leaf springs (such as Jeep YJ or Std. trailer) are readily available at any number of automotive or RV parts houses. Anything else on a leaf spring axle should be able to be repaired with a welder, if even only temporarily.
(4) Leaf springs provide a very agreeable ride when equipped with shock absorbers.
(5) Multi-leaf leaf springs can be tuned (to some degree) to your specific load characteristics by adding or removing leaves; meaning that if my weight estimates are grossly out to lunch I would have a chance to make a correction with little financial heartache.
(6) I am not carrying horses, which can be very skiddish and generally ride in very stout trailers with very high load rate suspensions (horses are heavy) over mostly paved roads (maybe a soft paddock or two), and I am certainly not carrying horses across 100 some odd miles of two track forest road (although others have...seen it done by elk hunters packing in).
(7) Despite all of my camping gear and cast iron, and even though I have alluded to some celebratory beverages, I am not much of a drinker anymore, so there is not that big of a concern that the 500 lbs of beer will go flat. I would like to fry an egg or few, so will pack those accordingly (if unsuccessful, there is always scrambled or omelets).

Mind you that this is not necessarily my personal experience, but rather the opinions that I have formed from doing research here and thru other on-line sources. Considering all of the above, I have consciously decided to go with dampened leaf springs.

The swivel coupler provides, for all intents and purposes, unlimited range of motion while still positively constraining the hitch in all three axes. The Std. coupler with 2 inch ball only had 26 degrees range of motion up and 24 degrees down (IIRC, see above where I documented this previously).
Do I need all of this “robustness”, probably not. Does it add intrinsic value if I decide to sell later, maybe, to the right buyer. Does it appeal to me and make me happy, definitely!
Thanks for watching and for your input. All are welcome.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9616
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby KCStudly » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:23 pm

I think Karl felt a little guilty for taking off on me this past weekend. He needn't have...I managed to get to Mecca for some more work this evening, and hope I didn't over stay my welcome (was there from 5-8pm or so).

Anyhoo, My name is Kevin and I am a gearhead. They say the hardest part is admitting to yourself that you have a problem. For rounding the corners off of the swivel yokes and U-Joint I was thinking that I would just snip off some of the excess using miter cuts in the saw, or with a cut off wheel, and then grind and/or sand smooth.

But nooooooo. I am a gearhead. I had to let Karl, also a self confessed gearhead, and tool junky, talk me into milling them on the rotary indexing table. We're crazy. There's no way that this was a practical use of time. But gearheads and tool junkies are always able to justify using neat tools, just because they are cool, by rationalizing that, "it will come out better this way, this is the RIGHT way to do it, the tool is here so we might as well use it". Doh. :FNP

I'm happy for the experience, but I wouldn't bother to do it this way again. Here we go...

First, before removing the Std. vise from the mill ways, I wanted to ream the U-Joint out to the 7/8 bushing size. As you may recall we forgot to do this before losing center. So we just set the jaws of the vice narrow, to prevent the part from spinning, and let the part float a little so that the reamer would find it's own way on center. Just had to be very careful to hold the piece down when extracting the reamer afterward.
88967
Do this times 2.

Removed the Std. vise and hauled the heavy rotary table over to the mill where it took the both of us to lift it onto the ways. The alignment pin I made last night is at the center and the little bits and pieces are the dogging lugs and T-nuts for clamping the work to the table.
88962

Here you can see the clevis over the alignment pin and dogged down.
88964

Using an edge finder to center the middle of the table/hole under the middle of the mill shaft.
88965

After setting zero on the digital readouts, move the table the radius of the cut plus half the diameter of the cutter and this is where our last pass will be. Eyeball everything to make any adjustments for things that aren't perfect (due to welding and hand layout of holes, etc.)
88966

Here's the first sweep just starting with a roughing bit.
88968

And coming around the bend (note the coolant squeeze bottle in the foreground).
88969

Do that a bunch of times flipping the part and cleaning chips as you go and it gets a little tedious trying to crank that little hand wheel at an even rate. Poor mans power feed to the rescue!
88974
Slow speed range, very low variable trigger speed, keep the coolant flowing.

The U-Joint set-up was a little different, needed a longer cutter (which also happened to be a bigger diameter...so a table adjustment was needed), and the work needed to be spaced up off of the table to protect the table from the cutter.
88971
88972
88973

And here's a blurry pick of the parts mocked up after a little hand deburring with a file.
88975
The rough cutter marks will be smoothed over on the Bader next time.

Nutty? Yes, but it's starting to look like the plan, and that's always a pleasure to see. 8) :D 8) :D :thumbsup:
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9616
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby Martinup » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:02 pm

Hi Kevin:

Interesting insights and explanations. I have a much clearer understanding of the up sales in axles components now. Time for me to research military spec and more off road stuff I guess.

You will have to forgive the whole zen thing . . . You know get into it . . . Be one with the trailer . . . " Wax on, Wax off ".

I must have been mixing it up a bit . . . Am I the horse or the trailer, or the beer or any of the other contents? :NC When we go that far; we are all one and havin fun 8) :R

I haven't gotten into the real off rooad stuff . . . Logging roads are mostly all I crave. I thought the ground clearance was better with the torsion system . . . I considered break downs, in the middle of no wheresville and ordered a spare Idler arm and a break drum with our assembly.

Now I have to add a bottle of Tequilla in the event that I have, " What did you call it ? " Oh ya, " A Premature Ceasar . " :lol: Just laughing at myself.

I enjoy the Banter and the SHTICK :D " Just the Facts Mam" :lol:

Watching your progress and enjoying it

Martin
Martinup
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 115
Images: 36
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:15 pm
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby KCStudly » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:51 pm

On the way to Fab Mecca this evening I passed the guy's house where the Tioga was being stripped down, and to my utter amazement there was absolutely no sign of it having ever been there. That guy did an amazing job cleaning up all of the debris!

Well I guess I'm getting bored with all this same old same old machine work, same as you. But we must soldier on and muddle thru this.

Deburred and sanded the yokes and U-Joint.
89034

Sanded thru my glove and just nipped my thumb (little white spot).
89035

Meanwhile Karl was getting set up to repack the bearings on his utility trailer.
89036
Easier to just hoist the whole thing up in the air to waist height than to mess with a clumsy old jack and have to bend over, and stuff. :R

Before welding the swivel pintle to its yoke I needed to drill the cotter pin hole (easier to clamp and index it now). So I used some makeshift soft jaws (aluminum blocks to prevent marring the shaft) to clamp the pintle shaft in a machinist vise, then put that in the mill vise, tighten the nut on the shaft, level the wrench flats to the bed so the drill will run thru true to the slot opening on the other side of the nut, spot face the thread area in the nut slot with an end mill to make a little flat spot so the drill bit will find its own center, and drill thru.
89037

Remove the nut and chamfer the hole.
89038
Flipped the pintle over and chamfered the other end of the hole, too.

Here's a mock-up of the assembly with the cotter pin installed.
89039

And a close up.
89040

My camera doesn't seem to take very clear close ups. :?

So the shoulder on the pintle shaft and the width of the yoke are both the same at 2 inches. Where the shoulder meets the broad side of the yoke hub it forms a nice natural fillet weld prep, but where the shoulder OD comes into tangent with the sides of the yoke hub some weld prep is needed to get some penetration for the weld to bite into, shown here laid out with sharpie.
89041
It's kind of hard to see, but there are adjoining sharpie marks on both parts, top and bottom.

For the yoke I just clamped it to the bench and ground out fish mouths on both sides. For the pintle I used the small machinist vise with the soft blocks and then clamped that to the bench so that I could grind on it without it moving around (or me accidentally grinding on me! :shock: )
89042

And here's another blurry photo of the fit up with both sides ground back.
89043

First root weld was a little light and because the parts are relatively heavy the shrinking pulled the weld apart resulting in a crack (utt-oh, something that must always be looked at very closely on critical welds).
89044

So I cut that out with a cutoff wheel. On Karl's advice I started the weld slower, hovering at the starting point to build more heat into the base materials, then using a larger filler rod, poured a much bigger bead in, and lingered at the ending point to hold the heat in longer. Once I had a couple of solid beads in there was enough latent heat in the part that shrinking was no longer an issue and the final weld looked like this.
89046

And an overall shot of the finished assembly.
89047

Ordered the YJ leaf springs today.

And that about does it for today. Thanks for looking in on me.
Last edited by KCStudly on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9616
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby KCStudly » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:08 pm

Martinup wrote
I enjoy the Banter and the SHTICK " Just the Facts Mam" Watching your progress and enjoying it.


Thanks Martin. The moral support is working. Bring it on, I need all the egging on I can get. I believe it was Jerry Reed (coincidently hauling a whole bunch of beer at the time) who sang, "We got a long way to go and a short time to get there..."
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9616
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby KCStudly » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:22 pm

Wife called me at work to tell me that the brown truck came today. When I got home these goodies were waiting for me.
89084
89085

and one unfolded
89086

and extended
89087

The springs seem to check out as specified; I can deflect them about an inch or so by standing on them (240 lbs ...and losing :thumbsup: ).

The jacks are nice and light, but seem sturdy enough. The height adjuster catches seem like they are just a friction affair, no real detent to speak of and it was difficult to try them out because the weren't attached to anything. Also, the lever rod doesn't seem to do much, but again it's kind of hard to tell without them being hooked up to a stable load. The swivel feature and retention mechanism works really well. Quality seems good and the price was reasonable.

I just hope they reach the ground! :R :roll: :worship:
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9616
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: Poet Creek Express - Frame & Swivel Coupler Fab Progress

Postby GPW » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:05 pm

KC, keep working !!!! You are going to have the COOLEST trailer ... 8) 8) 8) :thumbsup: :applause:
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14912
Images: 546
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Foamies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests