Thrifty Alternatives ..Building Foam Campers

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

Moderator: eaglesdare

Postby eaglesdare » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:45 pm

yes, those pics are on the front. i have not checked the rest of it yet. i sort of looked under the tarp, but did not see anything on the sides.
Louella
May the foam be with you.
User avatar
eaglesdare
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3167
Images: 13
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:06 pm

Postby linuxmanxxx » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:33 pm

Ok I'm thinking the front happened first because of all the additional stresses placed on it during travel which the other sides get little to none. This is actually a good thing and I think if you just wait and get some of the lagging compound and redo just the front you'll be good for the duration of the lifetime of your camper and maybe have to fix some small ones if they happen to pop up on the rest of the surface.

If you patch it I'm betting that it will happen somewhere else on the front and then you are just applying another patch until you finally have it all recovered again. Peel the front up to most of your front curve and just recover it and I'm betting you won't have to touch any of it again.

Now that's the beauty of this canvas type of build is that repairs are cheap and relatively easy compared to a standard build of camper.

You did bolt this down to the trailer rather well didn't you? If so I'd try a trip without the straps as that would put additional stress on the front every time you cinch them down tight and then release them later. If you bolted the floor down with large washers to spread the load, you won't ever have problems with the cabin separating from the trailer.
User avatar
linuxmanxxx
500 Club
 
Posts: 735
Images: 10
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:50 am
Location: Abilene TX

Postby GPW » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:24 pm

Steve, I was wondering about that too... those patterns of bubbling were ...curious ... Didn’t look like random bubbling which would have been everywhere huh ? ... Now I wonder if the straps were flapping in the breeze , beating on the front ??? :o

You’re right , they’re so easy to fix... they never were intended to be Pretty works of trailer Art like everybody else makes , just Thrifty and Practical (hard tent)... so patching is OK !!! If it was me , I’d give the Whole trailer a careful inspection , see if there were any more problems ... if not just patch the front and don’t use straps ...

Eagle was just being Careful with the straps ... that was during the early days when we had a naysayer who said they were all going to blow off the trailers ... causing much Caution and concern , a theory that turned out not to be true ... :roll:
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14238
Images: 545
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans
Top

Postby mikeschn » Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:05 am

Is that because you didn't get enough glue on the foam, and it pulled away, or is it because there was something on the foam before you put the glue on?

Mike...

eaglesdare wrote:pics of bubbles



Image
The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten, so build your teardrop with the best materials...
User avatar
mikeschn
Site Admin
 
Posts: 19194
Images: 479
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:01 am
Location: MI
Top

Postby eaglesdare » Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:01 am

the FOAM is ONLY attached to the wood floor by glue. period. no bolting. the floor wood is bolted to the frame. but the foam is only glued onto the floor. hence my fear that it "would/could/might" blow off. that is why i use the cinch straps, to make sure it is secured to the frame.

mike, there was plenty of glue. i was not skimpy on that part. ratkity will vouch for me on that one. full strenght tb on the foam then canvas. after that i diluted the glue and rolled that on top of the canvas. there is more than one coat there also. i made sure of the glue coverage. so i know that is not my problem.

but i keep going back to the cinch straps being my cause. i know when those straps are on i can not get my door locks to fit right. so i have to lock my doors prior to cinching. so my thinking is that those straps are pulling the foam inward on itself. causing the problem.

so i think what i might end up doing is removing the canvas altogether and start over? or just cut away the center canvas and reapply that only with overlapping on the sides. right now my sides are overlapping on the top. oh heck i am not sure what i will end up doing. must wait and check out the whole camper.

i like the idea of just stripping all canvas off and reapply new, as i was going to repaint it anyway. wonder if i can convice the tearjerkers to come back down for a modification weekend.
Louella
May the foam be with you.
User avatar
eaglesdare
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3167
Images: 13
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:06 pm
Top

Postby GPW » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:49 am

Eagle ... pulling all that canvas off is going to be a lot of work(and more money) , and won’t do a thing unless you solve the strap riddle ... Why did it happen in the first place ... ? It appears the straps compressed the foam and when released the foam stayed compressed but the skin stretched back tight again .. pulling away from the depressed area... = bubbles :thinking:

If you’re still worried about your floor to wall attachment , why not take the time to add another reinforcing strip all around the bottom and onto the floor under ... and if you must use those straps , why not replace that contact area with a hard skin (thin ply) made to take the abuse ... we know how to make it waterproof and you could even cover over it with canvas and paint ... Lots Easier than re-covering, waaaay cheaper ... and you don’t have to provide Beer and cupcakes ... 8)

And while you’re at it , get all those other little things done that you wanted .... camping season is not that far away ... :roll:
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14238
Images: 545
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans
Top

Postby crumbruiser » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:05 pm

Like Mike, I am wondering if there was something on the foam to cause the glue not to stick, like a thin layer of oil from the manufacturing process or maybe even from the natural oils on a persons hand. Before putting the glue on, did you happen to wipe the foam off with a degreaser or Dawn dish soap or anything? I'm just wondering cause I would like to get the root cause of the problem too.
Frank
I am not weird, I am a Limited Edition.
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000303236631
User avatar
crumbruiser
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 266
Images: 255
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Top

Postby linuxmanxxx » Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:07 pm

crumbruiser wrote:Like Mike, I am wondering if there was something on the foam to cause the glue not to stick, like a thin layer of oil from the manufacturing process or maybe even from the natural oils on a persons hand. Before putting the glue on, did you happen to wipe the foam off with a degreaser or Dawn dish soap or anything? I'm just wondering cause I would like to get the root cause of the problem too.
Frank
Lets review the fact that TB2 or TB3 both are very hard drying wood glues and not rated to glue foam. You have a hardening glue surface that is adhered to a basically flexible and quite brittle surface so failure is going to be a matter of time its just the nature of glueing a surface the glue is not made for and states it isn't for as well.

Now back to Mike's tests and what worked better than others. He had best success with a paint I believe and now I'm going to give some ideas of why that was. For something to bond to the foam and last long term you need a glue surface that isn't hard or brittle after drying but one that is flexible and adheres well to foam and won't eat it as well. Paint is a flexible usually latex based material that drys and stays flexible and has adhesion properties or it wouldn't ever stay on the walls we put it on. You see where I'm going with this? Paint would work for a decent amount of time and none of us can say how long that would be since this is only a year into this genre of build and nothing long term yet.

The lagging compound looks good because it is a glue and sealer in one and isn't expensive by any means but kinda difficult to just walk up and purchase. So I'm betting any really good long term exterior rated latex paint would work for many years but if you want one that will look the same 15 yrs from now vs year 1 I'd go with the lagging compound or a water based flexible glue that won't damage the foam to adhere the canvas to the foam. Once that is on and stuck properly you can then transition to anything on the outside surface and never have delamination problems.

I can't wait to see someone use the lagging and then see how smooth it sands and what kind of surface it can provide. Imagine if it sands smooth then the notion a foamy has to look cheap is out the window and its game on for the crowd who care about the end result of the looks department.
User avatar
linuxmanxxx
500 Club
 
Posts: 735
Images: 10
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:50 am
Location: Abilene TX
Top

Postby GPW » Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:05 pm

Steve ,one might take offense to the notion that Foamies look “cheapâ€
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14238
Images: 545
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans
Top

Postby eaglesdare » Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:21 pm

now your thoughts about the melting foam with the fabric, this then takes the "anyone" can do it out of the picture. if it has to be a precise amount of something and done right, then i know that leaves me out. :oops:
Louella
May the foam be with you.
User avatar
eaglesdare
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3167
Images: 13
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:06 pm
Top

Postby GPW » Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:40 pm

Not to worry , probably too tricky for even me too ... :o Might take a good bit of experimenting .. Stinky too ...
Eagle just use the Paint this time as a glue ... Like xxx says , it’s Flexible ... best so far eh , locally available ... :thumbsup...
Did you examine the rest of the trailer ... like where the straps go ??? What about the sides ?
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14238
Images: 545
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans
Top

Postby Ratkity » Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:53 pm

eaglesdare wrote:the FOAM is ONLY attached to the wood floor by glue. period. no bolting. the floor wood is bolted to the frame. but the foam is only glued onto the floor. hence my fear that it "would/could/might" blow off. that is why i use the cinch straps, to make sure it is secured to the frame.

mike, there was plenty of glue. i was not skimpy on that part. ratkity will vouch for me on that one. full strenght tb on the foam then canvas. after that i diluted the glue and rolled that on top of the canvas. there is more than one coat there also. i made sure of the glue coverage. so i know that is not my problem.

but i keep going back to the cinch straps being my cause. i know when those straps are on i can not get my door locks to fit right. so i have to lock my doors prior to cinching. so my thinking is that those straps are pulling the foam inward on itself. causing the problem.

so i think what i might end up doing is removing the canvas altogether and start over? or just cut away the center canvas and reapply that only with overlapping on the sides. right now my sides are overlapping on the top. oh heck i am not sure what i will end up doing. must wait and check out the whole camper.

i like the idea of just stripping all canvas off and reapply new, as i was going to repaint it anyway. wonder if i can convice the tearjerkers to come back down for a modification weekend.


I'm vouching for the copious amounts of glue! We had it oozing through the fabric. It also ended up on us, the ground, our shoes and yes, our hair!! LOL.

Hugs,
Ratkity
Ratkity
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 1065
Images: 0
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 1:01 pm
Top

Postby linuxmanxxx » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:39 pm

GPW wrote:You’re right , they’re so easy to fix... they never were intended to be Pretty works of trailer Art like everybody else makes , just Thrifty and Practical (hard tent)... so patching is OK !!!
Lol I just shortened your diatribe down to cheap Glen :twisted:

For the record I don't see a problem with taking something like TB3 and going over it all again for hardness after having something else laminating the cloth to the foam. Make a harder shell as well as add another layer of waterproofing to the mix. Like a cheap water based type of epoxy job if the lagging compound turns out not to be very hard a surface.
User avatar
linuxmanxxx
500 Club
 
Posts: 735
Images: 10
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:50 am
Location: Abilene TX
Top

Postby eaglesdare » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:45 pm

hey patricia, wanna come down march/april again and help to repair it?
Louella
May the foam be with you.
User avatar
eaglesdare
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3167
Images: 13
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:06 pm
Top

Postby Blotto Bros » Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:09 pm

OK, I just went out and walked around on the roof of my trailer to check for bubbles. I laminated canvas to a 1/4" wood substrate on my Vardo roof. I mixed a 50/50 tb2 and warm water slurry then stretched and tacked down the canvas (8oz) to the roof. Next I used a paint roller to apply the 50/50 mix over and through the canvas adhering it to the plywood. I gave it a full 24 hours to dry then went back over it with a 70/30 tb2 mix in the same manner. Another 24 hours dry time then 2 coats of elastomeric rubber roof coating.

NO bubbles or de-lamination of any kind. This roof flexes a good deal in the wind and I have walked on it several times this summer.

This leads me to a couple possible issues.

1. The foam does not allow any of the water in the tb2 to penetrate, therefore when the outer "crust" flashes over it seals some water under its skin and traps it between canvas and foam. Then we paint it and further reinforce the seal over the trapped moisture and make the problem worse. No problems arise until it gets bellow freezing and that moisture freezes, expands and breaks the bond between canvas and foam.

2. The foam and the canvas shell absorb heat from the sun at different rates and this problem is really just "oil canning" between the canvas and foam that results in a broken bond and de-lamination. This may be why we didn't see this problem until cold weather sets in. Could her nice RED paint job be playing into this? I wonder if we will see this on a foamie painted white?

I am leaning towards the trapped moisture issue...since my roof is a wooden substrate the excess moisture simply absorbed in instead of being trapped???

Perhaps I will try this theory on some scrap canvass and foam I have then put it into the freezer and see if it bubbles up.
:twisted:
Even those souls that are found must occasionally become lost to appreciate what they have.
User avatar
Blotto Bros
Silver Donating Member
 
Posts: 174
Images: 51
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Foamies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MickinOz and 1 guest