Outer skins

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Outer skins

Postby Gizzmo » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:46 pm

What do You guys consider to be the lightest,strongest,( strongest as in able to withstand rocks flying up from the wheels or say a baseball whacking into it) UV resistant, rigid outer skin? Oh and paintable.
I would use 1/4 plywood but wanted lighter if I could

The Formica really looked neat, just not sure how well it will take the sun exposer.

Also what do you all use for a decorative corner that will mold around curves?

I am new to this foam building but it sure looks fun
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Re: Outer skins

Postby KCStudly » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:48 pm

One of the beauties of foam and canvas construction (or epoxy glass if you prefer that method) is that you really don't need the expense or complication of traditional trim. In fact, not having a place for water to get is one of the biggest attractions.

My plan is to radius the wall to roof/front/hatch edges and wrap the canvas right on around; no trim.

Some people believe that FRP makes a good rugged and paintable surface, but if it were me, I would just leave it the factory color (boring white or blah tan); less chance of paint failure (seems as tho proper prep is key, and perhaps more difficult than usual due to the textured surface... although some people flip it and use the smooth side out). There is some concern that it is not UV stable, but there are some examples of older material doing quite well outside. It does seem kind of heavy, but I wonder how much of that is because you are handling the finished product and not just one of the elements at a time (i.e. it is heavier than canvas, but is it heavier than canvas once the glue and paint are all applied?). :thinking:

I would rank FRP as more puncture resistant than Formica, but then my experience is limited with both.
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Re: Outer skins

Postby Mary C » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:39 pm

After driving from Texas back to GA I heated up my iorn and Iorned out a few places on my foamie and the canvas went right back down. Then I had a couple of big dings push ins I just didnt do anything and now I cant see them. I had a place I needed to repair and used vinyl sheetrock repair and all I did is sand and Painted right over it cant tell where it was repaired. Sure beats repairing metal or wood.

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Re: Outer skins

Postby GPW » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:32 pm

Mary, that’s exactly what we’ve been trying to say all along ... Canvas is easy to patch , and the foam fixes itself with a little heat/sunshine... OK, maybe not in Winter ... :roll:
The iron works good huh !!! :thumbsup: :D
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Re: Outer skins

Postby kayakdlk » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:52 pm

I am building my entire teardrop out of 1/8" Baltic Birch plywood. This includes the floor, walls and roof. I made the floor out 1"x3" pine frame with 3/4" foam in the voids and then 1/8" plywood top and bottom. This stress panel type construction allows one to stand or kneel on it without fear of breaking it, two can lay on it with no problem. And if made on a flat work bench it stays flat. The walls and roof are the same construction, and then they are cover with fiberglass cloth ( used 7 oz because it was one closeout, but 3 oz would be fine) and epoxy to strengthen and seal out any water. I will be painting with Monstaliner to protect the expoxy and provide color and additional abrasion protection from tree limbs, rocks. Not bullet proof but definitely rock, fist and branch proof. You can apply a panel of light weight diamond plate on the front end, and around the bottom edges for additional rock protection and still weigh less than if you use 1/4" or 1/2" plywood.

Most seem to over build and that increases weight. When I first decided to build, I built my bulkhead panel with the method above as a trial run and decided it was more than strong enough for the entire build. If in doubt I suggest you make a test panel to see how it would really feel and work.

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Re: Outer skins

Postby Gizzmo » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:21 pm

Is Frp the same material that they use to build ful size campers?

Where in the world does one find 1/8 birch ply wood?
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Re: Outer skins

Postby atahoekid » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:18 pm

The material they use in RV's is filon which is a type of FRP. But when people mention FRP, they are normally talking about the stuff they use to clad walls in commercial applications such as restaurants. It's pretty water resistant but the fear about it's UV capability (not sure if it holds up or not) comes from the fact that it is designed for interior use. It might be very UV resistant but then again it might not be.
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Re: Outer skins

Postby Gizzmo » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:16 pm

Could someone please send me a link to where the front and roof was pre-laminated before it was put together or does everyone put the skins on afterwards?
As you can tell I've never built with foam. For new guy there so much information here it's hard to sort it all out :thinking:
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Re: Outer skins

Postby Mary C » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:53 pm

Boy I have been where you are , I finally decided that I had to build easily and thriftily. I was in the money constraint. I found that putting canvas on top of foam with lots of TBII was fine. I had lots of doubts about the looks till I painted it. My suggestion go to box store and get a small bottle of TBII and while there, go compare prices write it down. check out the foam cost and then the wood remember that pretty thin stuff can cost a lot. Then go price out canvas drop cloths non- treated kind. Now take the time to get some pieces of cloth an old tee shirt will work and glue it on a little foam piece any kind of foam (an old foam drinking cup will work. really put the glue on till it sorta comes thru the cloth . now let it dry for a couple of days. then get some old house paint doesn't matter what color and put two or three coats on it. When dry can you tell if there is wood? Now think why put that expensive wood on the foam then cover it with canvas? What does it accomplish? In other words think through what you want to achieve and what you want. It just so happens that that the divots and holes and rock marks are very easy to repair Hot iron, vinyl spackling and paint and it looks great. limb scratches, sand use hot iron, vinyl spackling, On wood, sanding replacing, putting wood filler, holes cutting large pieces staining cutting out out hole sanding gluing staining and then poly. Now I admit I know nothing about the epoxy or fiberglass except it is messy very detailed and when something gets really messed up you have to redo cut out fill and oh it is too much work for me . I just want to go camping my purpose is not to have a show off rig but a camping trailer where I can sleep and eat. I built it to camp in now if your purpose is to have a show piece then take that into consideration too. I hope this helps. but do the experiment I think you will be really surprised at the look and sturdiness.

Mary C. :)
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Re: Outer skins

Postby KCStudly » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:06 pm

More info please.

Are you building a "traditional" foamie with just foam and fabric, or are you doing a hybrid with wood inner (or outer?) skins?

Mel (atahoekid) and his Road Foamie is the only hybrid that I know of that is complete. I believe that he built his roof in place and finished after installation.

My TPCE build (link below) is probably the next farthest along, as far as hybrids go, but I haven't started installing my roof yet. When I do I plan on finishing the inner skin first, installing it, and then building the foam out on top after.

(By my own definition a hybrid foamie has a more traditional stick built wooden interior, whereas a "traditional" foamie has minimal wood. I don't consider canvas covered wooden campers to be foamies, even if they do have foam insulation in their walls. Other people may have their own definitions.)

Do your walls have rabbets across the top and front to receive a unit built roof. If you are asking if anyone has prebuilt their roof off of the cabin, installed it in one piece, and then put the canvas on; I don't think anyone has done that in a foamie, but Aggie79 (Tom) and others have used that method (except with aluminum or wood skins). See how Tom did it on the Silver Beatle build thread here. Maybe that will give you some ideas.

Big Mike experimented with putting the canvas on the wall blanks prior to standing them up on the floor of the Big Pink (before it was taken over by tac422), but I don't think he did the roof that way. Look here for Mike's thread, and here for tac422's.

Hope this at least helps you get started answering your question. :thumbsup:
Last edited by KCStudly on Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Outer skins

Postby Gizzmo » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:45 pm

At first I guess I was planning to build a hybrid but now that I read Mary's post. I will give that a good look, i'm really just out for functional. Looks are a little bit important but not that much.

My thought with the hybrid was simply to find something to form the roof around, off the trailer then mount it to the trailer and then laminate my sides and mount them and then take a router and follow the roof edge around to make a perfect seam. Obviously I would have to install some wood in strategic locations to make a solid roof to wall joint. But that shouldn't be to difficult
I have never done anything like this so that might just be flawed thinking :thinking:
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Re: Outer skins

Postby atahoekid » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:19 am

KCStudly wrote:More info please.
Mel (atahoekid) and his Road Foamie is the only hybrid that I know of that is complete. I believe that he built his roof in place and finished after installation.

I did glass once it was in place but that was mostly because if I glassed it before putting it on top, I would have a lot of difficulty handling a piece that large by myself. I did skin the insides with the thin underlayment before placing it on top, but glued two halves together once placed on top and then I glassed it up. It was more an issue of size rather than one method being "superior" to the other
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Re: Outer skins

Postby KCStudly » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:23 am

Usually it's done the other way around. Cut the walls out, mount them, then attach the front and roof.

Why do it twice? Use the walls as the form to build the roof around; eliminates some extra steps and saves the material for a plug that you would need to build to have something else to wrap the roof over.

It's a lot easier to make the walls the same when they can be put back to back before hand.
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Re: Outer skins

Postby Mary C » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:59 am

Might I suggest you at least look at the pictures in the Grits build and foam stream and possibly some other builds. It would be far easier to put the walls up first. I made a frame of 1x4s which were intended to use as hard points inside for things. they helped hold the roof in the middle. I planned to carry a little fishing thingy on top so I needed a little extra support, Then I thought about mounting solar panels but as someone pointed out if they are mounted I will have to move the trailer around to get the right direct sun it is easier to just move the panels. I used 2 inch for the walls but I layered 2 1/2 inch pieces on the roof. that made it easier to bend for me. If I did it again I would space them differently. But I did ok. 1/2 inch will bend somewhat I left it out in the sun all day and did the bending when it was really hot. I did try to kerf but I was not good at that at all. Might have worked better on thicker foam. If you use foam and there are gaps and holes, use great stuff to fill the big holes and use vinyl spacklin to fill and level before you put on the canvas. I did some but got tired and I was in a hurry to go to a campout I should have filled a little and sanded more but oh well. I have done some on top of the canvas and now painted over it . Cant tell where I did so. Thats the beauty of it.

Mary C. :)
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Re: Outer skins

Postby GPW » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:36 am

After almost 3 years now , living Outside, our #1 Foamie trailer , covered with a light linen canvas is still in fine shape and still Dry as toast inside ... It could use a paint job , only because we used Cheap (Wal Mart) paint :roll: ... the only time “Thrifty" has bitten me on the arse :oops: ... Use Good paint !!!!!!
The FS has the very Heavy 18oz. canvas, and has dried/cured Very Solid ... (built like a tank ... er, submarine ..) ;) Doesn’t look bad either ... JMHO :D
Any repairs on either of these (should it be needed) can be easily accomplished “on the road” ... with a small carry along repair kit consisting of... a can of great stuff, some scrap canvas, scissors , brush , glue and paint ... And the requisite Foamie tool ... the serrated kitchen/steak knife !
A Foamie is a Foamie ... designed, built for specific intent! ( "a horse of a different color” ) ... Anything added to the idea of a basic Foamie , is just more an attempt at an “RV” , and offers less of the practical benefits of the basic structure... in terms of Thriftiness and Practicality (the original intent) ... All this has been hashed out over several years now ... many opinions expressed , many "tests” ... Well proven !!! :thumbsup: Just thinking “hard tent” rather than "mobile home"... :thinking:

JMHO... Fiberglass is a Super outer skin for a Foamie , but expensive, and you’d better know what you’re doing ... and if so , you’ll know how to repair it too... Done right it can be very Pretty !!! :thumbsup: And then , there’s boat builders who have used fiberglass cloth with TB2... which seems more home builder friendly ... and apparently works well too ... the cloth is the strength , the resin or glue (whatever) just holds it in place... much the same as with canvas , or any other material ... ;)
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