Smoking.

[48Rob]

Dooner,

Well...

They stand and smoke in the entrance to Walmart because they have been forbidden to smoke inside walmart...

Why were they banned from inside? Because they didn't have the courtesy to consider other peoples wishes to attempt to avoid smoke.
(And self appointed saviors of the world who had the power to make change did so).

Or...they felt they were being considerate but in fact did not realize how far the odor spread in a closed building...

Those who now stand outside doorways everywhere, are generally considerate, but the same circumstances apply; some people are very sensitive to smells, and others (most notably smokers) are unable to smell much of anything.
Most mean well, some are simply uneducated (about the result of their actions) and some could care less what anyone else thinks.
(Kinda like dealing with people in general...)

I realize those who attempt to inform and or educate are doing so out of concern, and the attempts are taken pretty well.

It is the crowd who insists upon trying to change other people’s behavior when those people have clearly indicated they are not interested in changing...to the point of becoming anal.

Not everyone wants to be saved, not everyone CAN be saved, a big revelation to many!

The effort put forth by these fanatics in changing the world by using intimidation just doesn't set well with most... get a life, a "perfect" world does not, will not, and never did exist.

Life is a whole lot more enjoyable when you try to get along with as many as possible, and when some stubborn ass won't budge, just smile and walk around.
Smoke may not kill them, but high blood pressure, stress, a heart attack, or some other "do gooder" illness will.

Anyway, I'm not offended, or upset, just offering my opinion.

On the subject of smells, I wonder how many are aware of how many air fresheners work?
They desensitize your ability to smell by affecting the olfactory nerves.
Fresh air?? huh?

The men and women who douse themselves with perfume probably think they are just putting on a "little" as they can barely smell it.

What is really amazing is that we, the public in general can smell much of anything at all.
For your clothes to "be clean" they must have a clean smell.
For our car to smell new we hang stink trees.
For our carpet we sprinkle powder, and the list goes on and on.

If something smells (even if the smell is pleasant) how can it be clean...

Okay, enough opinions from me, for tonight.

Rob

[Miriam C.]

What Rob said.

[halfdome, Danny]

Well the self appointed saviours of Washington state, THE VOTERS, voted to ban smoking in public places and 25 feet from public buildings. I guess we must have a whole state of do-gooders or maybe just a bunch of fed-uppers The people spoke with their votes and won cleaner air. Danny

I understand California has a similar law.

[Gage]

And so far there are 19 that are trying to change the world. And I'll just bet that they are past smokers. I sure hope I have the 352 in my truck by Minden. Sure would like to take it this year.

<snip>
I understand California has a similar law.

Danny, that law has been in the books now for over 15 years. I think that's why I'm so confused when I go into a restaurant in another state and they ask me 'smoking or no smoking'?

[halfdome, Danny]

I think that's why I'm so confused when I go into a restaurant in another state and they ask me 'smoking or no smoking'?

The smoke divided restaurants always confused me. How can you designate separate air spaces in the same building with the same ventilation system? Sometimes a smoking section would be just a few feet away from non smoking, go figure. I try not to in public and I expect smokers to be as considerate. Danny

[Dooner]

Hey Rob, I understand that everyone has rights and no matter what it is, there is always going to be at least one inconsiderate a_ _ in the group to mess things up for everyone. It's just like the tv at the local Mr. Gatti's Pizza place. My kids and I were there eating pizza and watching Ed, Edd, and Eddie cartoons. We were cracking up at all the antics. A woman came in with her kids, saw the tv show, went to the counter and told the manager "I have issues with that program. Change the channel.", and he did. So I guess you could say we were the smokers and the show was our smelly smoke. It's going to always be something.

My main concern with smoking in public places, is how the smoke can effect children. Those cigerette desposals were not put there at the door for them to stand there and finish smoking. They are there for them to put them out. There is a whole parking lot to smoke in.
Even at Disney World. There are so many designated smoking areas, but they are going to smoke everywhere around all the children.
If they don't want to think of anyone else, at least they can think of the children. And I know you don't have a problem with that.

[48Rob]

Dooner,

Yes, you're right.
This, like many other health related discussions/arguments, can never really be "won".

On both fronts, there are people who are right, and people who are wrong.
Both sides may have very valid points/goals; the trick is to come to a compromise that leaves both sides feeling like they have accomplished that goal.

Children coming to Wal mart should not have their health harmed by smokers who stand at the doors.
People in general should not have to be affected, but, reality sets in.

Who allows these people to smoke...?
First and foremost, our Government (they know the health risks, but there is too much money at stake...money they get to spend).
Second, the people make the choice.
And third, Wal mart allows it.

Why does Wal mart allow it?
Because to ban the activity would mean less profit.
The powers that be, you can rest assured, are WELL aware of the problem.

Their job is to produce profit, period.
If the non smoking/objecting customers were to outweigh the smoking customers, that is, interrupt or cut off the profit, smokers would not be allowed on the property.

Perhaps I see this in a one sided manner because of my geographic area, but the majority of the Wal mart customers I encounter are smokers...
Because they are the majority, there are butt pots at the doors with no one telling them to move aside.

Simple economics.

A local hospital decided to ban smoking.
All smokers had to go to designated areas outside.
Then, they decided that nowhere on the property would smokers be allowed to light up, period.

Okay, it is their property, their business to choose.
Wal mart is the same, if they choose to ban all smoking anywhere on their property, it is their business.
If they choose to allow it, it is their business.

If I do not smoke, and they allow it, and I object, I shop elsewhere, but I do not try to pass laws telling a private business what they can do.

I would not give, nor think to give argument to their decision, on either count.

If I owned a business that catered to smokers, say, a bar, I would not do well with an authority telling me that my customers could not smoke within my private business.

This whole majority rules thing (or is it powerful one sided wealthy special interest groups) that finds the support and power to take away rights is very scary indeed.

Sure, some of the changes made are good for the majority, but what of the rest, the ones that could easily be regulated by home rule...

The people who are so sure that passing this new law or that will "save the world from itself" fail to notice that in order for these laws to be passed, many liberties and freedoms are being taken from us.

So many of us have fallen into this false sense of security, believing that the government will take care of us/all.

What happens down the road when we have no freedoms left, when they have all been regulated away from us by do gooders hell bent on fixing one problem, with no regard to how these actions will affect what is left?

Do we want to be told how many children we can have, of which sex?
How long we must work, IF we can retire.
What foods we can grow, and to whom we can sell them.
What color we can paint our home, what type of car we can drive?

Simple economics can "fix" many of the problems new laws aim to solve...but it has become far too easy for the woman who walks into the pizza place and demands that the channel be changed to get her way...because of the short sighted audience who are quick to jump on the wagon without thinking it through.

I do care about the children, and believe that some rules/changes are good, but it must be remembered that we, as parents also have the option of walking our children around many of the obstacles, without the need for more laws.

No amount of laws "can make our children safe" from all the hazards and dangers that exist.

Most times, a cool head and a good dose of common sense will allow the goal to be achieved.

Rob

[Et Cetera]

When I'm asked whether I'd like "smoking or non-smoking" and I say, "As far away from smoking and as NON-smoking as I can get", they usually seat me on the other side of the smoking partition. The smoke is coming through the lattice, and it's a foot away. UGH. It's all the same air.

I make the point of saying to the hostess that if she ever goes to a public pool, make sure she asks for the "no peeing section", and take note where the peeing section is so she can stay on the other side of the imaginary line from it.

It's all the same water.

[EZ]

Many good arguments in this thread on both sides. However some of the ideas that people who smoke should just quit and that would be that is a rather utopian idea. Just because some have been able to "just say no" to smoking and others cannot or refuse to seems to me to suggest that those that smoke are pathetic losers with no will power or intelligence.

Good for those who have stopped, better for those who have stopped without much difficulty. However it is my opinion that all people have different levels of motivation, will power, chemical dependence, psychological dependence, stress, physiological makeup, hormones, pheromones, tolerance, addiction, etc. For those of you that say why don’t smokers just stop, I did, is analogous to asking why don't drunks just stop drinking, crack addicts stop using, gamblers stop gambling. To take that to another level, why don’t crummy drivers just drive better, gangs stop banging or homeless people get a job.

What I get from some of these posts is that you are flawless individuals with zero tolerance for the flaws of any other human being. If you can’t (don’t) just stop smoking/drinking/drugs/gambling/fill in your favorite vice/ then you are weak or stupid. I prefer to paint the human race with a much broader brush.

Smoking is as much about common courtesy as anything. I don’t like a lot of perfume either. Nor do I like people who talk on cell phones in private areas or while driving, eat foul smelling Asian food, cut in line, drink too much and on and on.

As you probably guessed I smoke. Not a lot. I don’t like it and I am always trying to stop. However as I smoke I am courteous of others around me, as I am when I talk on a cell phone or stand in line at the movies. I agree that smoking is bad and no one should do it. But the idea that people who just don’t up and stop smoking (drinking/using drugs/etc) are weak or flawed just kinda seems arrogant and judgmental.

I think I need …….oh….I mean want a smoke

Ed

[halfdome, Danny]

I agree that smoking is bad and no one should do it. But the idea that people who just don’t up and stop smoking (drinking/using drugs/etc) are weak or flawed just kinda seems arrogant and judgmental.

I've been following this thread quite closely and I don't recall anyone trying to get anyone to quit smoking or saying they are weak or flawed, it's your personal choice. Just because some don't want to be around the stuff dosen't mean they are trying to force you to quit. To have to breathe the same air as a smoking cigarette is forcing the general population to breathe second hand smoke and that is what it's all about. When I was smoking my wife kept badgering me to quit and it rankled me to no end. Once she shut up and let me decide it was easy for me. Funny thing we have been divorced for decades and now she is a smoker. Danny

[apratt]

I use to chew tobaco, I decided that I didn't need it any more. Quit cold turkey, about 20 years ago. To this day expecially in the summer when I am fishing or outdoors I really crave a chew. But when I did quit about 8 month later I was fishing and had a big craving for a chew I went and bough a can, had one chew, yuck I spit the chew out and threw the can away. I did that about 5 times!! I finally realized I don't like the tobaco but I still crave for it!!!

[Joseph]

When I was smoking my wife kept badgering me to quit and it rankled me to no end. Once she shut up and let me decide it was easy for me. Funny thing we have been divorced for decades and now she is a smoker.

That's wot ye call ironic.

Joseph

[Dooner]

I want to thank everyone for participating in this poll and discussion so far. I felt a few angry vibes here and there, but for the most we were able to discuss this subject very calmly and with a little humor.

I think we can all agree to disagree and still be friends. And I think we really all agree on the same thing, but in different aspects. We all want our rights.

I can't wait till my first gathering. I think meeting you guys in person is going to be a real joy. And yeah, you too Rob.

[48Rob]

Thanks Dooner!

I like people with a calm cool personality!


I bet you'll have the time of your life at the first gathering, and each one thereafter...as they only get better...


Rob

[Gage]

Rob, are you going to be able to make it to the ITG this year?