Would you bail out the auto industry?

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Would you bail out the auto industry?

yes
18
19%
no
75
81%
 
Total votes : 93

Postby Walt M » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:11 pm

OK the grousings not bad,but besides the poll there was a question how would we help to fix it. I'm A firm believer that whenever you get both agreeing it's going to cost us money and we get nothing out of it. I see it like this, there are three sides to this problem. First the unions who want there piece of the pie first more benefits without thought as to the fact you just can't keep passing the cost on ( it makes you no longer competitive) then the management ( where's the engineering creativeness) we now have guys that all they want to do is make it look good for their stock prices. Why would GM want to get into the credit card bus. instead of making better cars? (by the way, through their credit card bus. they're now trying to get some of the Financial bailout money too). and last but not least, "Congress" during the Clinton Admin. Congress passed the Cafe' regulations that told the auto industry where emission levels should be by certain dates no matter what cost it added to the price of cars. I'm not saying we shouldn't have emission standards, but lets apply some common sense. Ford sells a diesel in Europe that gets 60 miles to the gallon but it doesn't meet our emission standards. I guess we get the gov't we deserve, I'd like to know how many union employees out there drive foreign cars. Thanks for letting me vent. Have a great Thanksgiving. Walt
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Postby satch » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:04 pm

I guess we get the gov't we deserve, I'd like to know how many union employees out there drive foreign cars.

I'm union,but not in the auto industry
And to answer the next part, I own 3 vehicles:
Chrys. PT Cruiser
Ford Ranger p/u
Chev S-10 Blazer, so you can't say I have'nt helped them!
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Postby Miriam C. » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:10 pm

:( Walt, I made an honest offer to work for only $1 million dollars but I see I have been underbid. Seems the perks are better than I expected.

This is not a joke.

I bought a Nissan many years ago because it fit me. The seats fit and I could reach the pedals. Now I am the "average" American woman. Market to me and I will buy! Besides it was assembled in Smyrna Tenn with parts from everywhere. Ford was advertising parts from around the world.

What I would do is force bankrupt companies reorganize! Force the insurance companies to take what we pay for employee insurance. Insist the Union executives take appropriate pay cuts equal in meaning to the workers they represent. My senior staff, beginning at the CEO would resign in shame. Then I would hire an oil company executive to run things. :twisted: 8)
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Postby Walt M » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:08 pm

Auntie M :) it all sounds good, but I'm wondering if you wouldn't be better off with a 10 year old with a vivid imagination to run things? Blessings, Walt
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Postby Miriam C. » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:40 pm

Walt M wrote:Auntie M :) it all sounds good, but I'm wondering if you wouldn't be better off with a 10 year old with a vivid imagination to run things? Blessings, Walt


No sir, Oil company CEO's are a different breed all together. They don't mind being super rich and living it but they have for years demanded real work for a days pay and have been very careful of injuries and lost days by workers.

Besides who else in this country thinks 40 billion profits is good :thumbsup: ;)
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Postby Elumia » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:57 pm

CAFE is not a Clinton dream. CAFE reg's came after the 1973 oil embargo. Emissions reg's are from the EPA. Unfortunately, there was a convergence in the EPA clean air regs and CAFE requirements.

Lots of families had station wagons back then. This was a problem, because they were hard to make and meet the new regulations. American's liked their big cars. Fortunately for the Automakers, there were loopholes in both sets of regulations. Lee Iaccoca had the great idea to come up with the mini van. It was not a car, it was classified as a truck. Great idea, we'll just build around the law rather than innovate. Euro's and Asian car companies had vehicles to meet their more stringent requirements (and market conditions of higher gas prices) back home, so they adapted products to the American marketplace. US Mfg's found that it was easier to compete in the "truck" marketplace with less rules and regulations (and where there was less competition from abroad) Now the foreign brands are inching into that market as well.

American car buyers are just as much at fault. We buy cars based on the worst case scenario. even though they drive by themselves to work 5 days a week, and rarely need the space afforded in a big SUV, pick-up or van, they buy it because they "might" need that much room. Worse even is they buy TWO such vehicles instead of one smaller and one larger. Why should we have to trade vehicles, it is too inconvenient.

So what should we do?

Examine what kind of car you really need for most of the time.
American's have an aversion to paying high dollars for a so called "economy" car. Detroit has been loathe to build small "luxury" cars. Have you ever noticed that sometimes it is more expensive to buy something smaller? It takes extra innovation to fit all the features in smaller spaces. Be willing to pay for what you get. Better fuel economy is better performance
If you need a bigger vehicle for unusual conditions, you can rent one! You can rent trucks when you need one instead of using it as a commuter vehicle.

Detroit could have read on the walls way back in the 60's that there was a market for small cars. Harley Earl saw it way back when he noticed his young designers driving VW's, MG's and such. As it happens he was pushed out of GM

check this out
http://www.carofthecentury.com/modern_a ... l_cars.htm

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Postby Mighty Mouse » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:25 am

I had to vote yes because I work for a company that the plant I work in is tied exclusivly to the auto industry, not just US auto industry but to all auto manufacturers. Monday we found posted on the bulliten board a notice that because of cutbacks by ALL of our customers we would be ask to take volunteery layoffs for the month of Dec. If I were in congress I would vote infavor of a LOAN not a free check. Call it socialist, call it what you want but any loan provider has the right to make reasonable demands of the people they are loaning to in order to assure that their investment is sound. To bad the banking/loan industry didn't think of this when they loaned money to homeowners, buisnesses and oil speculators huh. Terms of my loan plan would be simple, direct and adress both the expectation that my investment would be reasonably secure and the recipreants adressed the causes of needing this money. 1. All CEO's and corporate officers pay would be reduced to 250,000 and below. Sorry but NO ONE is really worth more money than that when all they really do is sit in a fancy office and fly around the world holding pointless meetings in luxury locations at shareholders expense. No bonuses of any kind for anyone unless the company can show a real profit for that fiscal year. Cut the fat and cut the C@#P, sell or get rid of leases on corparate jets, limos with drivers, fancy office suites and luxury trips for family and friends.GM would save millions a year for this alone on Wagnors salary and perks. The company big wigs are not only to blame nor are they the only ones wanting this bailout, the unions are pushing congress hard as well because their bread is buttered fron the same excesses. Union contracts must be rewritten with realistic terms reguarding such things as health care, layoffs and retirement. If they don't agree ( as many airline people did in the past ) they will see their numbers decrease as the big three and even American plants for foriegn companies cut employees in an effort to cut costs and facilaties. Here in KC GM and Ford have announced plans to extend the Dec shutdown, this is what is going to shut us down also. The third demand is to tool up Now, Right Now to build affordable, quality cars that Americans can and will buy, what we need, not what the manufacurers want to sell because the profit margin is higher as it is on light trucks and SUVs. This last would be best for the whole country as we could lessen dependance on foriegn oil that has held us hostage to people that hate everything about us except our money. Build affordable cars powered by electricity, natural gas, hydrogen or deisel and propane. Sure we will still need high horsepower vehicles for hauling and work but the average commuter doesn't need and can no longer afford a 300+ hp 4x4 truck or SUV that is used primarily to get one person back and forth to work an average of less than 30 miles a day. Last year I traded my gas hog dodge van for a Chevy HHR because I couldn't justify the expense of a big van that I used mostly to go to school and work and only pulled a trailer once or twice a month to camp in in the summer. The real payoff was I got to sell a heavy fancy pop-up camper and build a Tear Drop that we both like better than any of the big campers we have owned. Something about Teardrop camping is just more rewarding to me. Ok enough ranting on my part, vote for me for Pres. next time and I'll show you my ways to cut the national debt to afford my bail out plan. Oh yea Auto manufacturers must also show in black and white their plan to meet my loan terms, lets make it a 10 yr loan with reasonable low intrest, and a payment schedule to show their serious about working out their problems not just a big payday for the execs to party on like AIG got. By the way AIG delayed a contract with my wifes company for the last 9 months until they got their Gov. weflare shows ya they knew they had problems long before they admited it but played business as usual with their contractors and lied to their investors. And the American companies may pay more for worker costs ( that $78 per hr is the cost of laber per car based on all employee expenses including retirment expese for already retired workers which the Japaneese companies don't have many of yet) If comparing cost of cars to consumers VRS cost to produce the foriegn guys are making more per car since they pay less to build but charge the same or more to buy, ever price a Lexus? Sorry for the long rant but I get POd that someone elses greed and stupidity could cost me a great job with a good company.




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Postby Walt M » Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:42 am

Hey Mark and Bud, points well taken. They say we get the gov't we deserve. Over the years I've come to value two things that I do indeed have control of. My vote and how I spend my money. Being a self employed carpenter I own a Dodge 3500 diesel for the family my wife drives a Town and Country. We only have one child at home and he drives himself. The auto manufacturers can't force us to buy what we don't want, but as GM's market share kept dropping you would think they would have asked (what are people buying) I would love for my wife to drive something smaller however she loves the van and she does use it now for the grand kids. as for myself I'll keep the truck and when I can afford it I'll buy another smaller vechicle, When we talk about lifestyle, my life outside of work includes,a couple of activities, I'm in a contemporary Christian band we use the truck to haul the equipment then four of us ride together(so I guess that keeps three more cars off the road) and I scuba dive and we do the same thing there. I did try to make my own bio-diesel but when deiselis selling at around 2.00 a gal it isn't worth the effort. (plus all the restruants have now contracted to have there veg-oil hauled away, so it's not up for grabs anymore) I guess we all have to try and do our part. It does suck though knowing that I've tried my best to do what's right,got a mortage I can afford, no credit card debt,or auto loans. but because of someone elses greed or lack of any real effort to make the hard choices. My retirement isn't worth anything and I'm forced to change my plans. but I'm taught to Praise God for ALL things. Happy Thanksgiving,Blessings, Walt
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