Who wants to be a pirate

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Should we negotiate with these guys?

Yes They are misunderstood
0
No votes
No Just shoot them all
35
92%
Lets wait and see what the UN does
2
5%
Just give them the money
0
No votes
Just ignore them and they will go away
0
No votes
Let some other country handle it.
1
3%
 
Total votes : 38

Postby caseydog » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:20 pm

The biggest difficulty in dealing justice to the pirates is that the coast of Somalia is as long as the coast of the USA from Florida to Maine. It is a huge area. Add to that the fact that Somalia's government is powerless -- Somalia is really run by organized crime. Add to that, Somalia sits at a major point of travel for ships coming and going from the middle east, where we get way too much of the oil we are addicted to.

If most of the world's military were not bogged down in Iraq, we could probably deal more forcefully with these pirates. But even so, can you imagine trying to patrol a coast as large a the coast of the USA?

I'm all for putting soldiers with advanced weapons on these ships, too. But, that raises the cost on insuring these ships. And, God forbid we cut into the profits of shipping companies and insurance companies in the name of a bunch of nobodies who man these ships.

For the most part, piracy is treated by the shipping companies and their insurers as part of the cost of doing business. If a private enterprise wants to pay a ransom, then what can the various governments do?

Let's also not forget that the men who work for the pirates have nothing else to do. They can starve while looking for legitimate work, or work for the pirates and eat -- and feed their families. So, killing a boat load of pirates is not going to deter a man who has a choice between certain death doing the right thing, or possible death as a pirate.

Stopping piracy on the Somali coast will take a lot more than some symbolic destruction of a dozen pirates on one lifeboat.


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Postby madjack » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:14 pm

...blowing up a single "symbolic" boatload of pirates will do nothing...blow up several and you will get their attention...continue to do so and they will return to fishing...this is a lawless country with no viable economy...when you see a mansion being built...blow it up...don't ask...don't give warning, just blow it up...you don't havvta actively patrol the whole coast but when you do come across something...blow it up...will innocents get killed...probably BUT their GOD will take care of them...much as in the case of the Barbary Pirates 200 years ago, tribute(read ransom) was paid and the pirates only got bolder and bolder, demanding more and more...finally, enough was enough and we went in a took care of business...do the same now and take care of that same business before it gets worse.....
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p.s. a good synopsis of what Thomas Jefferson thought and what the US did in regard to the Barbary Pirates... http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/collections ... prece.html
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Postby martha24 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:55 am

dakotamouse wrote:
I thought the poll was an overall view of how to handle pirates. In this instance with the captain being held hostage a wait and see is the best option.


That's the way I took the poll as well.

A very good friend of mine has a son in the Navy right now and according to him the US Navy are the cops on the high seas as there are all kinds of crazy stuff going on that most of us never hear about.
Martha ;)

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Postby mk10108 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:10 am

greg755 wrote:Dewi,

I just cant believe that we sit there and put up with this, a couple of Navy Seal Snipers and we don't risk any troops...

At least the French stood up to the plate, that's a good sign.

The down side is a couple of merchant semen may get killed, but I believe if we don't do something now, that number will grow exponentially.

I also don't understand why these companies would pay them off when they could protect their ships with a minimal investment.

The Pirates would have a hard time boarding these ships if the crew had a couple of 50 cal Browning's not to mention if they had larger mounted weapons.

These are big ships how hard can it be to stop a couple of guys from climbing up a rope, its not like they can just pull up and step onto the tankers...


Your not putting up with anything, your going about your business, enjoying your life and generally having a good time. Have some ice cream.

Your statement "these big ships"....yes they are and manned by 3rd country workers with no concern of who owns the boat...total crew less than 25....good chance they never heard of a "Browning".....had training on head space & timing or blessed with a 2nd amendment that conditions one thought process with the equality of eight pounds of trigger pull.
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Postby S. Heisley » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:48 am

With the current situation, I have an idea. The navy could send a diver down deep, to come up under the life boat and plant a small explosive, just enough to blow a small leaking hole in the bottom. Since the captain is probably next to the door, they could put the explosive in an area furthest away from him, so he would be less likely to get hurt. They'd all eventually have to abandon the lifeboat and that is when the navy snipers could pick them off and free the captain.

Dealing with pirates today is a lot trickier than it was in Jefferson's day and a new series of attack plans must be developed to handle each situation. Thanks to the media, the whole world watches to see -and judge- what the United States will do.
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Postby caseydog » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:12 pm

I'm not suggesting that we be soft on the pirates. But, if the Somali pirate problem were easy to solve, it would have been done by now.

I would love to see these pirate boats sunk as they approach their prey. But, obviously, that is not easy, or like I said, it would be done already.

Here is a link to a wiki page on the problem. It has some interesting information on the origins of Somali piracy, and efforts to combat it, along with some explanations of the difficulty in combating it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_pirate
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Postby greg755 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:41 pm

He is free pirates dead. GO NAVY
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Postby dakotamouse » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:14 pm

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Postby caseydog » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:40 pm

He jumped out of the boat, again, and this time, the Navy was ready for it. It seems that the pirate watching the captain was yapping on his cell phone, and the captain took advantage of his guard's distraction.

Three pirates are dead, and one is in US custody. I can't think of a better outcome than this.

So, patience paid off. Had the Navy gone in guns-a-blazing, we'd have dead pirates, and most likely a dead hostage, too.

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Postby caseydog » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:43 pm

BTW, there are still a lot of hostages being held by Somali pirates. They are not Americans, but they have families and friends, too. I hope this is just the first step in turning the tide in the fight with piracy.

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Postby Dewi » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:46 pm

caseydog wrote:I'm not suggesting that we be soft on the pirates. But, if the Somali pirate problem were easy to solve, it would have been done by now.


The pirate situation is very easy to solve... the problem is that the world has lost its stomach for tough situations... and unfortunately the real world doesn't play by the same rules as our politicians.

When politicians tell us that they are sorting a problem, they are not, generally they are discussing and debating the issue and trying to come up with a solution which makes them look good. Look at the situation in WW2... Neville Chamberlin gets off the plane with a piece of paper, waving it in victory after his discussions with Hitler. He hadn't solved the problem, he'd merely debated with a madman and got an agreement that wasn't worth the paper it was written on.

From my understanding, the same could be said for Vietnam... much debate about the loss of life, but during that debate, the loss of life was still increasing on a daily basis. I'm not proporting to understand fully what went on over there, but every single day the politicians deliberated, soldiers were losing their lives on missions that need not have taken place.

My point is, rather than debate the issue, they should immediately reinstate the convoys in that region with an armed escort, an escort paid for by the shipping companies and passed on to the goods owners. It will mean more expensive goods, but it will save lives and lives are far more important than any amount of cash.

With the situation that has just been resolved, there was no real alternatives available. If negociations take place, the outcome is more piracy. Kill the pirates, risk killing the captive, but then thats the choice of all hostage situations. The trick now should be to ensure that no more sailors, no matter what their nationality are taken hostage, and that means politicians making real discisions right now, not in a month or a year.

Cheers, Dewi
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