Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Finishes, paints and coatings

Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Postby maxbluestorm » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:33 pm

Hi there - I'm almost finished with my build and thinking about finishes. To my great surprise, the outer skins of my walls are still really great looking, so I'm considering staining them instead of my original plan to just paint the whole thing. My question is about waterproofing - I've read a ton of posts about epoxy and spar varnish and CPES and I just don't know what to get, and I know that most of the threads end with something akin to "every tear is different, it's your choice" but I'm super confused at this point.

So my new plan:
-- stain my outer wall skins (1/4" baltic birch) a darker honey color
-- paint the skirts that cover the trailer (they're pine and pretty ugly)
-- paint the front, roof, and hatch
-- paint "edging" trim around the woody sides, even though I'll be adding aluminum trim too (questions about that are for another post).

(Note the bottom and inside walls of the pine skirts, and underneath the trailer floor are already all finished with Henry's.)

With this in mind, do I need CPES? If so, where do I put it - I am not sure you can stain over it? Or should it go over the stain? Do I put it on the whole outside, or just the edges/endgrain?

If I don't need CPES, what are some other suggestions to use? I'm not familiar with marine/spar urethane/varnish, but I've used Thompson's Water Seal on some outdoor furniture with good results. Do I use the same waterproofing sealant product over both the painted wood and the stained wood?

Also, if it matters, the tear will live outside underneath a weather cover. I understand that some epoxies cloud over time, and of course I'd like to avoid that.

Thank you so much for any guidance.
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Re: Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Postby tony.latham » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:49 am

With this in mind, do I need CPES? If so, where do I put it - I am not sure you can stain over it? Or should it go over the stain? Do I put it on the whole outside, or just the edges/endgrain?


CPES is thin epoxy. You can't get epoxied wood to take a stain.

I have not used CPES, I use Raka epoxy products and can recommend them. I think that if you use CPES, you'll have to put a UV protection over it such as spar varnish over the top of it. Raka has some UV epoxies but I have not used them.

I'd highly recommend you stain, and then saturate everything with epoxy (or CPES) and then do your painting.

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Re: Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Postby swoody126 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:19 am

for a CLEAR finish as well as a bonding agent i have gone to DWX Epoxy from DUCKWORKS

it produces a beautiful finish and is UV protected

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/supplies/ep ... /index.htm

here is a shot of a dinghy i rescued from a horrible fate

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DWX is not the least expensive (notice i didn't say CHEAPEST) choice though it is getting some really good reviews

sw
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Re: Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Postby maxbluestorm » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:10 am

Thanks Tony and Swoody126, this is very helpful info. I've been looking into boat finishes and also found Tony's answers on this thread as well: viewtopic.php?t=65747&p=1166942

So the order of operations would be:

1. stain/aniline dye the walls
2. cover the whole darn thing with epoxy (assuming about a gallon for 3 coats on my 5x8)
3. paint the parts that need painting over the cured epoxy with an outdoor paint
4. unless the epoxy has high UV resistance, go over the walls again with 3+ coats of spar varnish. The outdoor paint should hold fine on its own.

Does that sound about right?
Last edited by maxbluestorm on Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Postby swoody126 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:26 am

CORRUPT...i mean correct ;-)

though the varnish is not considered necessary some folks just don't trust modern technology and still varnish w/ a UV inhibiting varnish of their choosing ANYWAYZ

i'm too lazy & too much of a cheapsteak to spend any more time or $$ than necessary to get me where i want to be

& I WANT TO BE anywhere other than in this *^$# chair...

most of the time

sw
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Re: Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Postby tony.latham » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:14 pm

MaxBlue: The wooden boat guys are the Dali Lamas of outdoor wood stuff. :shock:

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Re: Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Postby maxbluestorm » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:46 pm

Thanks so much guys, I have a plan now. Going to go with the Duckworks and picked up my exterior paint today.

Also, cheapsteak might be my new favorite moniker. :lol:
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Re: Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Postby swoody126 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:55 am

maxbluestorm wrote:Thanks so much guys, I have a plan now. Going to go with the Duckworks and picked up my exterior paint today.

Also, cheapsteak might be my new favorite moniker. :lol:


i think you will be quite happy w/ this decision

Chuck (the Duck) & his loverly bride Sandra Leinweber worked their little fannies off making their family business a success and a GOTO site for amature boatbuilders. whenever i wanted something whether it be an actual product or some advice their phone was always answered by a real person, Chuck, Sandra or their right hand girl Cindy.

POX is your friend, at least it is MINE. being a chronologically advanced curmudgeon who works/plays solo i found the SLOW hardener to be my friend. it allowed me enuff tyme, while building, to do things w/o the stuff going off prematurely

POX has the ability to fill many of my wonky cuts and even create a stronger joint than some of the other modern/common bonding agents being used today

Chuck is a prolific builder of boats and he tests the products sold thru DUCKWORKS by submitting said products to what i call ACID TESTING

many of said boats are built using the same methodology as the CLC Teardrop and have proven to be quite able, dependable and safe

anyone whose bridal unit continues to follow him on his adventures has earned the kind of trust so many of his customers/friends have bestowed on him :thumbsup:

they recently moved their warehouse location and got a tad bit behind with their order turnaround butt i think they have now caught up

if you have any issues/questions you can call or e-mail them...

as for earning the moniker of CHEAPSTEAK... I'M GUILTY AS CHARGED M'LORD :D

feel free to adopt the moniker if you think in your own mind your frugal behavior has qualified you to use it

plagiarism is the highest form of flattery ;)

sw
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Re: Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Postby KCStudly » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:38 pm

After Step 2 ^, before paint, allow the epoxy to cure fully, wash with water and a scrubby pad, dry thoroughly, scuff the surface to add "tooth" for the paint, clean sanding debris thoroughly, and then move on to Step 3.
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Re: Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Postby maxbluestorm » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:14 pm

UPDATE:

I applied water-based stain to the sidewalls, then Duckworks epoxy with slow hardener over the entire exterior, and then painted the roof/front/bottom trim and it's all looking great -- except that I'm in Arizona and so the temperature got quite hot the day we were epoxying, so the finish is a bit runny overall. However, since it was my first time using epoxy for anything other than small applications, I think it went very well and for this season it will be just fine - in the future I might scrape/sand it down and re-apply for a smoother finish, but I'm very happy with the results. It will certainly be waterproof, that much is clear. Now I'm waiting for the hatch and doors to cure so I can paint them too.

Thanks for all the advice!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vt485zp2bo2jg56/teardrop-epoxy.jpg?dl=0
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Re: Waterproofing, stain + paint questions

Postby swoody126 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:41 pm

maxbluestorm wrote:UPDATE:

I applied water-based stain to the sidewalls, then Duckworks epoxy with slow hardener over the entire exterior, and then painted the roof/front/bottom trim and it's all looking great -- except that I'm in Arizona and so the temperature got quite hot the day we were epoxying, so the finish is a bit runny overall. However, since it was my first time using epoxy for anything other than small applications, I think it went very well and for this season it will be just fine - in the future I might scrape/sand it down and re-apply for a smoother finish, but I'm very happy with the results. It will certainly be waterproof, that much is clear. Now I'm waiting for the hatch and doors to cure so I can paint them too.

Thanks for all the advice!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vt485zp2bo2jg56/teardrop-epoxy.jpg?dl=0


in the future, when times and operations allow it isn't wrong to coat larger panels b4 assembly while you can lay them flat

we coat full sheets when building boats for just this reason

if you have cabinet doors, drawer fronts, door skins etc... to do the same applies

also, it is said that using a sharp scraper goes a long way toward leveling wonky runs etc...

SO GLAD TO HEAR IT IS PROGRESSING SO WELL

sw
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