Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Converting Cargo Trailers into TTTs

Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby OverTheTopCargoTrailer » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:39 pm

MtnDon

Your smoking hot coming right along, mine has been going backwards because of the Chinese New Year.....
I'm sooooo BUSY that if I wanted to kill myself, :cry: :cry: I would need to get a doctors note to take off 30 seconds
needed before next Friday.....

Cheers Jerry
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby hankaye » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:02 pm

MtnDon, Howdy;

Movin' right along ... Lookin' GOOD!
Question ... Where are you going to vent the gray water tank?
In my RV (home sweet home), I've got vents for ALL the tanks,
the kitchen one has one of those flapper-valve types under the
Kitchen sink the other 2 go out through the roof.
Just thought I'd ask......

hank
Last edited by hankaye on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby MtnDon » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:22 pm

Vents are important. Good question. In a residential setting vents usually are required within 5 feet of an appliance; sink, toilet,shower, etc. I did our whole house plan 30 years ago and it worked. I am not sure how that is going to translate to a RV setting. Shower and sink are both within 5 feet of the waste tank. I have a few ideas and have not yet decided on which one(s) will be implemented. Perhaps simply a vent at the tank exiting up through the roof. Probably NOT hidden in the wall. The shower pan drain strainer outlet is for 1 1/2" pipe. I have a HepvO waterless trap I may use.

The sink is a bar sink with an outlet that can feed to a 1 1/2" tailpiece / pipe with std P-trap. I also have a Camco camper trailer "compact" trap and hose assy. I may use that. And it seems that a Camco could be used for the shower as well. They drain through a 3/4 hose so the volume that can be handled is reduced. But then we operate in reduced water use mode when camping so that may not be a big deal.

I have a roof top RV vent cap on hand. Too bad venting isn't as simple as electrical work.

It was a lot easier 30 some years ago when small trailers all had direct to the ground sink drains. Part of my problem is the limited space, but I'll illustrate when I have it decided on the plan or when I am done.
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby MtnDon » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:50 pm

Camco 37420 RV Flexible Camper Drain

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http://www.camco.net/Products/Item?prod ... uxSlLRabk8
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby RWH » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:27 pm

It's looking great. You are truckin along quickly. :hammer:
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby OverTheTopCargoTrailer » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:20 pm

Hey MtnDon

I wouldn't worry about the sink & shower vents to much....
In the GOOD old days they were never used :D :D They are designed to mostly allow the water to drain faster.
There is a type of plumbing vent / valve you can also use without making a hole to your roof.
if you really can't live without vents- use this
(due to my Alzheimer's :cry: :cry: - I have forgotten the name)

I found it ....god bless google pictures :applause: :applause:


http://www.plumbingsupply.com/autovent.html
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby MtnDon » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:55 pm

I knew it was a Studor; could have saved you the time ;)

The shower/sink distance to the tank is so short venting those runs does not matter. It's when you come to wanting to drain the gray tank without it gurgling or maybe sucking the water from the drain traps it becomes better to have a vent. Studors work, but then I've never been one to worry about cutting holes in roofs. I do that on houses a lot. :lol: After looking things over this AM I decided to use one of those Camco sink drains on the shower too. It makes the task easier and it runs well. 3/4" ID hose with a PVC adpater and a Uniseal grommet makes an easy quick connection to the tank.

The HepvO will go into the cabin so I don't have to remember to drain the sink trap there, or remember to add antifreeze in winter.

I think I'll tackle the Fantastic fan this afternoon.
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby hankaye » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:35 pm

MtDon, Howdy;

The vent I was thinking about was this one,
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-1-1-2- ... /100204205
simple and work well, if you "Tee" the drain
from the trap you can install right there where
it will drop to the tank ...

hank
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby MtnDon » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:27 am

That is similar to the Studor valve and it too works well for its designed purpose. Thank you. If I understand their operation correctly there is one deficiency for use in venting an RV holding tank. The valves are designed to allow air into the piping to permit easy non interrupted flow from the sink or shower down the waste pipe. In an RV the valve will open and allow air to enter the tank when the dump valve is opened. They will not permit air to escape from the holding tank when drain water enters the tank though. That is by design; they are meant for use in a building in place of a vent stack through the roof. The purpose there is not to vent smelly air out of the system, but to allow air into the pipe as the water flows from the upstream appliance to the downstream sewer or septic. In a home the valve would be located close to the fixture just as a standard vent stack would be. Studors are great for things like sink located in a kitchen island counter.

The way I see it in an RV with a holding tank, the holding tank needs a vent to the outside. Air must be able to enter the tank as it drains; something the Studor will do. It also needs a vent to allow air to leave the tank as the tank fills, something the Studor would not do. For that task the holding tank needs to be vented outside to avoid the problem of malodorous vapors inside the RV. The appliance or fixture should not need a vent because of its proximity to the holding tank. At least that is the theory I am going by.

Does that sound correct?
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby PaulS » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:32 am

MtnDon wrote:That is similar to the Studor valve and it too works well for its designed purpose. Thank you. If I understand their operation correctly there is one deficiency for use in venting an RV holding tank. The valves are designed to allow air into the piping to permit easy non interrupted flow from the sink or shower down the waste pipe. In an RV the valve will open and allow air to enter the tank when the dump valve is opened. They will not permit air to escape from the holding tank when drain water enters the tank though. That is by design; they are meant for use in a building in place of a vent stack through the roof. The purpose there is not to vent smelly air out of the system, but to allow air into the pipe as the water flows from the upstream appliance to the downstream sewer or septic. In a home the valve would be located close to the fixture just as a standard vent stack would be. Studors are great for things like sink located in a kitchen island counter.

The way I see it in an RV with a holding tank, the holding tank needs a vent to the outside. Air must be able to enter the tank as it drains; something the Studor will do. It also needs a vent to allow air to leave the tank as the tank fills, something the Studor would not do. For that task the holding tank needs to be vented outside to avoid the problem of malodorous vapors inside the RV. The appliance or fixture should not need a vent because of its proximity to the holding tank. At least that is the theory I am going by.

Does that sound correct?

That is correct :thumbsup:
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby hankaye » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:56 pm

MtDon, Howdy;

All I know is I have one below the sink in my kitchen (in the RV),
as I fulltime I keep the external dump valve open for the kitchen drain ,
the flapper valve keeps the smells in the pipe. I have zero 'stink' coming
back out. I'd know as due to the colder nighttime temps. I leave the cabinet
door open so some warmer air will circulate under the sink and keep the
waterlines from getting to cold.

hank
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby MtnDon » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:41 pm

It is doing what it is supposed to do. :D



Todays progress.
#1
The Fantastic fan is installed along with one of the Fantastic Ultra Breeze Vent cover.

Image

#2 The window. I cut a hole in the wall for the window. This was easy. With the window opening framed in with steel already I was able to cut from the interior. I drilled a start hole and used the pointed blade to get a cut started. I used the Sawzall with a 24 tpi metal cutting blade. The steel made a nice guide. I stopped where the corner radius started and switched to cutting from the exterior with a 32 tpi blade in the jig saw. Here's the view of the hole from the inside.

Image

Now a shot with the window in place...

Image

The view from the exterior...

Image


I also made mounting support rails for the gray water tank between frame rails, but I did not take a photo yet.
Our 6x12 deep vee nose cargo trailer camper conversion... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=58336

We have a small off grid cabin we built ourselves in the NM mountains; small PV solar system; 624 watts PV, Outback CC & inverter/charger ... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.0
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby lrrowe » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:45 pm

I like it Don. Nice work.
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby OverTheTopCargoTrailer » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:59 pm

I can feel it in my bones.....

STARSHIP .......MtnDon will be ready for launch in no time at all :beer: :beer:

I bet your already planning the exterior graphics :pictures:
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Re: Don & Karen's 6 x 12 Deep Vee Front CT

Postby hankaye » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:56 pm

MtDon, Howdy;

Excellent lookin' window install and the vent and cover.
How did you do the framework for the window? Flat
steel for the frame? How did you install it?

hank
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