Best wall anchor screws/method?

Converting Cargo Trailers into TTTs

Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby khigh » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:05 pm

This might vary a bit by manufacturer in terms of studs, so I'll mention I have a Lark.

But what's the best way to anchor weigh bearing systems like a folding bed? It just seems like an awfully thin bit of metal you're working with. I see sheet metal and self tapping screws at the hardware store, but they don't seem like they're up to the task,

I'd like to knock it out before I paint so I can have wood glue helping me, but obviously I want the strongest possible connection.

Thanks for looking,
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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby Rocky5000100 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:45 pm

Also curious to know the answer.

Also, do people just use self tapping screws for cabinets?
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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby OverTheTopCargoTrailer » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:09 pm

Its pretty simple, think about it like it was a 2 x 4" wood stud....

you have a nail , a lag screw & a bolt with a nut / washer on the other side

with metal you can also use rivets , metal screws & bolts with nuts


The strongest is a threaded insert, which is a rivet with female threads, that will accept a machine screw or bolt when fastened.

http://www.fastenerdata.co.uk/products/more/inserts.html

http://www.delonrivet.com/Products-8.aspx

http://www.delonrivet.com/Products-9.aspx

These guys got a million kick but video's


http://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/brands/avdel/products/threaded-inserts/eurosert


http://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/brands/spiralock/technology
Last edited by OverTheTopCargoTrailer on Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby Spotman » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:22 pm

I have a folding bed in mine. It was built by someone else a few years back. I did remove the bed frame from the metal brackets in the wall. When I did, I took out several "Lag" bolts and one that had the nut and bolt. The nuts and bolts on the left brace, closest to the ramp were accesable only there, but the lag bolts were used in all the othe brackets (only 2 brackets for the fold down). So far I decided to leave them in that position to have more room when folded up.

You can see what I mean by pics in my Gallery.

Hope this helps.



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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby darrellbeck » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:26 pm

Just a note of caution. We used to use shelved trailers to carry my wife's displays and products, all fairly light stuff. In total we put on around half a million miles with trailers on behind. I learned on the first one not to count on the walls for any support, because on that first one, with shelves on both sides and an aisle down the center, I supported the back of the shelves by screws into the "studs" in the wall. I soon learned that if you do that, the movement of the trailer combined with the weight of the shelves and product (at that time dried floral arrangements) broke the welds at the point where they joined the floor. Very nasty to repair.
Needless to say, all the weight of all the structure in the CT I am just starting will get its support off the floor. The walls in a trailer are designed to support the walls and roof, nothing more.

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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby Spotman » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:32 pm

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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby Hiflyer » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:45 pm

Unistrut channels. Mine are solidly on the floor and screwed thru the wall studs to keep in place

Gives me unlimited options which I like

Pictures here:

http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=5 ... 5#p1095819
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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby khigh » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:18 pm

Hmm...

Food for thought.

Don't want to take off the walls if I can avoid it.

I'm kind of torn on whether the whole "Walls aren't for holding stuff" is a fair assessment. I can kind of see that in the build of the studs, but they're cargo trailers. They should be designed to have shelves and such attached.

I don't really want to put up that much. Honestly, the bed will be supported from the floor. I'm going to build a 9-9" sturdy frame and then use a piano hinge. The wall attachments won't so much be holding the weight. Fortunately doing it before I paint lets wood glue do an awful lot of the work, and I had my build upgraded to 16" OC. so if I start with something like a 2x4 glued all the way and then anchored with steel stud screws 2 per at 16" intervals, I should be OK.

Same thing with shelving. I'm using freestanding wire shelving. perhaps gluing a coupld strips on and anchoring them to the studs should be plenty to restrain them from tip-over force which gosh - I hope will be negligible anyway LOL.

About the only two things I wanted to hang the full weight of from the wall are my 12x12 canopy (likely on garage hooks), and a section of 12 inch high wall cabinet. 30-36"
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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby walkrdg » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:19 pm

khigh

For what it's worth... hauling household goods from Reno, NV to Bellingham, WA, I used 10 hex-head sheet metal screws to fasten a five foot E-Track section to my 3/8" plywood wall, about three feet up from the floor, horizontal. I avoided screwing into the steel studs as I am not sure I'll leave the E-Track up in the future, and decided I didn't want unnecessary holes in my studs at this time. I ratchet-strapped a 3-door stainless refrigerator (something over 300 lbs), along with a wood display case (around 50 lbs)' to the track. I cut through the corner of California via Susanville, to I-5 and then through Oregon and Washington. About 100 miles of simple 2-lane in Nevada, about 150 miles of rougher up-and-down and curvy mountain driving, and the rest was freeway. 880 miles in total. Nothing moved- at all! It worked. (Whew). I don't plan to do that again.

I'll be fastening a bed to a wall, and probably some light cabinets, but that's about it.

I note what darrelbeck experienced. Definitely something to think about. I was wondering.

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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby Deediggler » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:59 pm

darrellbeck wrote:Just a note of caution. We used to use shelved trailers to carry my wife's displays and products, all fairly light stuff. In total we put on around half a million miles with trailers on behind. I learned on the first one not to count on the walls for any support, because on that first one, with shelves on both sides and an aisle down the center, I supported the back of the shelves by screws into the "studs" in the wall. I soon learned that if you do that, the movement of the trailer combined with the weight of the shelves and product (at that time dried floral arrangements) broke the welds at the point where they joined the floor. Very nasty to repair.
Needless to say, all the weight of all the structure in the CT I am just starting will get its support off the floor. The walls in a trailer are designed to support the walls and roof, nothing more.

Darrell



:shock:

Can you tell us a little more about the trailer you were hauling? What measurement between studs, what kind of studs, steel or aluminum etc. I have one side of the trailer i was planning on mounting the cabinets starting at 30" up the wall. I needed this to clear tires for a RZR side by side. If mounting cabinets to the wall is going to be a big issue, I might have to rethink my whole plan! :cry:


When framing a wooden stud wall, we always use anchors through the bottom plate. Maybe as a precaution I can fire some lag bolts through the bottom plate? Or maybe before I button her up I can get a welder to add some more support?
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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby hankaye » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:48 pm

Howdy All;

Just curious, does anyone know how the builders do the shelving in theirs.
Seems like they transport all types of tools, and large amounts of various
fasteners and other misc. swill on shelving they build on the walls of their
trailers.

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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby sdiver68 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:06 pm

I've just built a 6.5' long loft bed across my 6x12 with hat tube 16"OC posts, using etrack, etrack 2x4 holders, 2x4 boards, 1/2" plywood and a futon mattress. At most, 350 lbs will be on it when it's used as a bed...much less during actual transport.

I used 20 #10 self tapping screws to secure each 6.5' etrack to the 5 posts with the bottom of etrack about 42" up...somehow managing to hit the 1/2" flares every time. I might replace those with #12 metal screws.

Testing so far showed no signs of stress at all...no deflection of the boards or trailer walls, no creaking. My buddy who has modified many trailers and worked professionally on big rig trailers states I will have no issues. Even so, I may reinforce the middle with a post that doubles as a ladder to the floor on the front side and another in the rear. However, it seems to me with all the wall mounting accessories sold and my personal experience with various wall mounted trailer systems that as long as you span the correct number of posts for the load you shouldn't have any issues. YMMV.

Pictures will be in my build thread when I get to that part.
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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby khigh » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:10 pm

I had to leave a message, but I just called Lark.

I'm curious to see what they have to say.

My guess in the meantime, though, is...

Image

Something about self-tapping screws though, I either don't understand or don't trust for load bearing. It seems to me that the very nature of them is that something is flexing when they go together, so what keeps it from flexing apart?
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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby darrellbeck » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:32 pm

Deediggler wrote:
darrellbeck wrote:Just a note of caution. We used to use shelved trailers to carry my wife's displays and products, all fairly light stuff. In total we put on around half a million miles with trailers on behind. I learned on the first one not to count on the walls for any support, because on that first one, with shelves on both sides and an aisle down the center, I supported the back of the shelves by screws into the "studs" in the wall. I soon learned that if you do that, the movement of the trailer combined with the weight of the shelves and product (at that time dried floral arrangements) broke the welds at the point where they joined the floor. Very nasty to repair.
Needless to say, all the weight of all the structure in the CT I am just starting will get its support off the floor. The walls in a trailer are designed to support the walls and roof, nothing more.

Darrell



:shock:

Can you tell us a little more about the trailer you were hauling? What measurement between studs, what kind of studs, steel or aluminum etc. I have one side of the trailer i was planning on mounting the cabinets starting at 30" up the wall. I needed this to clear tires for a RZR side by side. If mounting cabinets to the wall is going to be a big issue, I might have to rethink my whole plan! :cry:


When framing a wooden stud wall, we always use anchors through the bottom plate. Maybe as a precaution I can fire some lag bolts through the bottom plate? Or maybe before I button her up I can get a welder to add some more support?


Number one: I am not an authority on how to build or modify a trailer. I spoke of a single incident that happened to me. It was a Pace 20ft with steel studs on 16in centers.
I supported 32in shelves off 1x4s glued to the wall and screwed to the studs. The shelves had a 2x2 1/8 angle perimeter with 1/2 plywood glued in. I supported the front of the shelves with 2x2 angle every 6 1/2ft, with a 3x3 metal pad welded on for a foot. Other than the weight of the shelf itself, there was usually a couple hundred pounds on a 20 foot long shelf. After about 20,000 miles I started having a dust problem, but could not see where the problem was. After another couple thousand miles, the area of cause became apparent because of the dust being heaviest there. It took close inspection to find that FOUR studs were broken loose. From that time on I made sure that the back was well supported and I never had another problem.
I have gone a lot of miles towing a trailer, and have become competent at towing a trailer. However, this makes me as much of an authority on trailer construction as it makes me an authority on building the roads I drove on.
The only reason I put this on is BECAUSE IT HAPPENED TO ME and I wanted others to be aware that it COULD happen.I know what I will do on my new conversion. It's up to you how to do yours.
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Re: Best wall anchor screws/method?

Postby darrellbeck » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:35 pm

I neglected to mention that there were 3 shelves on each side. Sorry.
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