PMF vs Epoxy/Glass - TPCE Wants Your Vote

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TPCE Wants Your Vote - Which method should I use, PMF or Epoxy and Glass?

PMF
8
50%
Epoxy and Glass
8
50%
 
Total votes : 16

Re: PMF vs Epoxy/Glass - TPCE Wants Your Vote

Postby Ned B » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:55 am

I'm in the same boat with Dale. No buttons in tapatalk. PMF. You're not building a tank, it's a camper & i"m pretty sure you won't be reckless while driving it. I can't see you treating any jeep like a rock bouncer while towing TPCE so dents and damage should be less of a factor.
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Re: PMF vs Epoxy/Glass - TPCE Wants Your Vote

Postby dales133 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:53 am

And yes after 1 coat of zinther superprime and 4 coats of dulux endure my canvas is considerably stronger than without it.
Im not realy biased one way or another but im very impressed with paint on canvas on mine thus far.
Ive used drill canvas (diagonal weave) with a high thread count and i bealieve this has added to the strenth greatly.


A slight off topic note...im waffling on wether to prime with zinther over the soack filler prior to tb2...what did you intend doung?
I thought the zinther sticks to anything and visa versa so id probably have a better chance of adhesion.. your thoughts...
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Re: PMF vs Epoxy/Glass - TPCE Wants Your Vote

Postby KCStudly » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:27 pm

I had thought about doing a full strength TB2 over the canvas, before paint or primer and paint, but got ahead of myself and forgot.

As I have proven many times, by the many helpful corrections that my fellow TDer's have blessed me with, that I am not an expert in many materials that are not metal (and even that I don't claim to be expert in). Simple version, your asking the wrong guy. :R

You know, even though we all like to experiment using material combinations and products for methods that they may not have been intended, I often wonder if our testing is valid at all, since we seldom are ever able to do practical long term testing before having to make an assessment to use or don't use.
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Re: PMF vs Epoxy/Glass - TPCE Wants Your Vote

Postby dales133 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:54 pm

Very true.
Ive told a few people some of my plans and even the whole concept of building my own caravan/teardrop and the reactions range from bewilderment to fascination to "have you just escaped from somewhere and do i need to call the authorities "
When i was looking around for paint for the canvas people thought i was bonkers; not to mention the lady at the fabric shop.
I think i might go with the primer or do a test piece
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Re: PMF vs Epoxy/Glass - TPCE Wants Your Vote

Postby rowerwet » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:28 pm

As you know, I am a big advocate for PMF. However I promote it for two reasons, it is easy, and it is cheap.
I've built two tears with it and would do it again. I also built a boat that features PMF and designed another that features PMF.
I don't think it is the kind of finish for a detail oriented builder like you, unless you are able to raise a mirror finish on a fabric skin. Obviously it is done all the time with FG, I'm not sure you will save anything doing that level of work to PMF.
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Re: PMF vs Epoxy/Glass - TPCE Wants Your Vote

Postby KCStudly » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:09 pm

I keep trying to tell everyone that my work really isn't all that perfect. My poly has little jags and blips in it. I have no intention of going for a glossy finish on the outside.

The canvas actually seems to have a more uniform appearance than the glass, even after a fill coat of epoxy. If I had used a slurry of micro the glass might have come out ahead, but with just a single coat of thick Zinsser primer the weave of the canvas isn't really noticeable and there was a pretty even texture of little nibs that more or less sanded off. After reading thru West System's recommended procedures for surface prep and finishing again, there are more steps and materials needed to get a good finish.

I'm tilting back toward the canvas. Dessert Moose, ghcoe and several others have had the patience to do really nice work with canvas, and I think if I could do the same without issues of bubbling and excess shrinking, I could be happy with PMF.

So Rower, with all of your PMF experience (and I'm thinking you've worked with glass before, too), tell me a little more what you don't like about PMF and why you think I wouldn't like it.

Nice cozy wood inside, utilitarian outside, that was the original plan. The more I handle the sample the more I like it. (Tilting waffles.)
Last edited by KCStudly on Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PMF vs Epoxy/Glass - TPCE Wants Your Vote

Postby Ned B » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:54 am

hooray!
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Re: PMF vs Epoxy/Glass - TPCE Wants Your Vote

Postby rowerwet » Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:06 am

I use glass/epoxy at a minimum, on my ply boats I only do the seams with it. I'm a function over form person, so I do not feather edges out or try to hide the tapes.
My PMF is about the same, no pre sanding, no ironing, no washing. I use the cheap canvas. Cutting the seams out was my only nod to looks for the foamie.
I just figured you had gone a bit over the top for the tear, and my experience is that PMF would take more work to get a "factory" finish, YMMV.
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Re: PMF vs Epoxy/Glass - TPCE Wants Your Vote

Postby KCStudly » Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:36 pm

:thinking: Here I was thinking that the glass would be harder to get right.

I brought the two samples in with me to work today to see what my coworkers thought. Mind you that these guys are mostly blue collar tradesmen that work in industry and know a thing or three about what works and how things can fail. Also, they are hands on hobbyist in various genres, so I value their input as I would my TD brethren.

Dave the powder coater/machinist, who is all about show finishes and a car enthusiast was hands down in favor of the fiberglass citing durability and the ability to make a permanent repair that could be totally blended, whereas canvas repairs would be more like a patch (even though we know that you can fair the canvas edges with a spackle and glue mix, if you wanted to). Without prompting, he also concluded on his own that the FG would be more puncture resistant.

Don, the other machinist with a vintage Ford Mustang who tends to be more frugal and never makes hasty decisions, agreed with me that it would be a tough decision and abstained from voting.

Ed, the electrician who used to have a nice '67 Camaro and has seen TPCE in person, was hands down in favor of the FG saying that the PMG didn't seem to be up to the same quality standard that I have built into the rest of the camper (kind of the same as Rowerwet's thoughts).

Gardner, ex-Air Force QA liaison, liked the FG better.

See where this is going? (Tilt back toward FG, waffle)
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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